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Getting to the real truth about faith

JamesKnight300Regular Network Norwich columnist James Knight takes a close look at faith and what it really is.


 
Faith is one of those words that is frowned upon in secular cultures, and in particular by secular scientists; for faith, according to those that criticise it, isn’t ‘evidence-based’ enough and should always be replaced with something more empirical. 
 
Thus, a substantial tenet of this modern anti-religious scientific movement - led by Richard Dawkins, Dan Dennett, Sam Harris, Victor Stenger, et al - has been a concerted effort to bring down the name of ‘faith’ - that is, to stridently assert that any adherence to a faith-based belief system must be an admission of impressionability, credulity, ignorance or foolishness. In this message I want to show that faith is nothing of the kind, and that it has been severely misrepresented by those that criticise it.
 
Often the first thing that a Christian needs to do is convince his non-believing listener that faith is not an admission of intellectual credulity. But before that we ought to examine exactly what faith is and how it fits into the Christian journey. There are two senses with which I would wish to use the word ‘faith’ - the first is a rational assent and the second is trusting something to which one cannot yet assent. To the man that believes we were created, the first kind of faith might involve, say, belief in an all-loving and personal God. The second kind might involve, say, trusting a friend to pay back the ten pounds that we lent him for the first time. But I would not wish to use the word ‘faith’ in things which are supported by scientifically established, testable evidence; thus I would not say I had ‘faith’ that we shall see stars tomorrow night, or that a ball would rebound back to me if I threw it against a wall. 
 
Now we should notice one thing straight away; both kinds of faith that I have described do not, by themselves, tell us anything about what is true and what is false. Man A might worship his god with compete subservience; man B might believe in the same god but spend his life disregarding the holy book of his faith, living a life of insubordination and profligacy. Man A probably would have both the first kind of faith and the second; man B, only the first kind; but notice that this tells us nothing about the first kind of faith, for both men have it and yet have reached different conclusions about life and how they should live it. Now it is, of course, the first kind of faith to which the sceptics are, and always have been, objecting. No sensible man objects to the second kind of faith; we are all called upon to have it. And if the first kind can be assented to by anyone, we will have to look for another way of reaching the right conclusion. 
 
When we talk about ‘belief in God’ we are assenting to the first kind of faith as a corollary of some event or experience which goes on to produce the second kind of faith. If a man sees the Spirit of Christ in front of him (as many have) and becomes a Christian because of this, he has acquired the first kind of faith and used it to develop an assent to the second kind of faith. Now better evidence or a more lucid analysis of his state of mind might tell us if his faith is rational or irrational, but the only irrational position he could take would be to disregard better evidence or a more lucid analysis - we would not think a man irrational for believing in the supernatural after he thought he had a supernatural experience. He might have been mistaken, but rationality does not work in that way - it does not embrace ‘might have’ - it always strives (or should always strive) for evidence, attestation and corroboration.
 
Having admitted all this - having admitted that faith itself is a separate thing to truth or indeed rational enquiry (discovering the former is preconditioned by the latter), we can see that it is either quite insensible or quite disingenuous (depending on who you encounter) to reject a Christian conclusion through a premise entirely distinct from anything supernatural or numinous. The truth about Christian belief is that the vast majority of Christians have begun with the first kind of faith and, through a process of searching and perhaps supplication, have established firmly in their minds the second kind of faith. The ‘seek and you shall find’ declaration very often supports this process - it would be quite irrational to have too much of the second kind of faith without having very much of the first kind. Christianity does not at any point demand or even insist that we should come into this blindly, it makes categorical and substantiated claims that those who have faith of the first kind and search will thus find faith of the second kind. Those who have the initial faith to step in will discover more than enough evidence, both in their own cognition and through knowledge gained from the vast array of experiences of other Christians. 
 
The first kind of faith involves an excess of conviction in an assent which is most comfortable and congenial to the human mind. But it does not just appear in religious beliefs; it appears in cosmology, astronomy, biology and in belief about natural law too. Our job is to work through the evidence, assess probability, and reach sound conclusions. And this is precisely what we have done; we have done it with astronomy, cosmology, physics, and biology, and we have made inferences about natural law because of this. But Christians have done the same thing regarding their own convictions; in fact, the Christian could quite well argue that his or her experiences are based more on certainty than any of the others, as God continually gives us a priori impartations in our relationship with Him. 
 
CrossCloudsWe are told by St Paul that the faith necessary to believe and trust in, and receive from, God, is one of His gifts to us. Now if no such God exists, it is all nonsense anyway. But if He does, we would certainly have better evidence of such a gift, of such a supernatural interference or invasion in our own cognisance, than we would anything else outside of the self. Having admitted this, the conclusion we should reach is that each and every non-believer would be doing the most sensible thing if, having reached a point of having the first kind of faith (perhaps even with a brief suspension of disbelief), they were to seek earnestly for the second kind of faith. 
 
Of course, people usually acquire the second kind of faith based upon a religious experience or a supernatural experience, but the fact remains true - seek with all your heart and you shall find - comes with an already established guarantee of Divine revelation. And this, I think, illustrates just how awesome God’s grace is - He offers certainty even to those who step into faith exploration with the utmost cynicism. He offers hope and assurance to anyone who would soften their hearts enough to let Him in. And if it is true that we cannot know God until we have allowed Him into our hearts - or perhaps more accurately, until He has helped us to allow Him into our hearts, then no facts of science or philosophy themselves lead to a Christian conversion. Other things might help with the eradication of doubt, they might help provide evidence and conviction - but they do not, by themselves, tell us the essential parts regarding how one comes to know God. 
 
And here we have seen why, for those on the outside criticising ‘faith’, a sound analysis of Christianity only comes from within the closed province of the first kind of faith. And this is what we should naturally expect of a God who created us and wants a relationship with us - that it would be impossible to have a relationship with Him without having faith of the first kind. Faith of the second kind has to be dependent upon the first. The magisteria of Christian revelation - that is, God revealing Himself to man - and the magisteria of all other enquiries, do not overlap without faith; thus, it is impossible, without faith, to formulate a sound analysis of the former based upon anything in the latter. That is why the many atheist critics of Christianity have been wasting their time arguing against the faith; their arguments only bring into consideration the corollaries or contextualities, not the imperatives. It is like covering your eyes with your hands and trying to convince yourself that the sun has stopped shining.
 
Admittedly, as a Christian, I can only describe the Divine revelation by describing the emotions it aroused in me, but then, a moment’s thought shows that all explanations are of this kind. I can describe the details of a road accident to a police officer, but I am only really in the strictest sense describing the effects that the accident had on my consciousness. The only difference between the road accident and the Divine revelation, as regards the ability to convey, is that the road accident can be described with a method that is common among all speakers of the language which is being used - the Divine revelation cannot, due to its a priori relation to selfhood and the first person ontology. But this is in no way surprising, for even if two people were in the same room who had both received a Divine revelation, they would have no way of describing it that was any different to that of a road accident description - that is, through linguistic commonality. 
 
There are some that think life itself is one big supernatural experience, and I will not disagree with them.   In other words, they think the Divine revelation is merely God’s way of revealing to them the cause behind their own thinking - what one might call a ‘retrospective cognitive alteration’. This might be perfectly true; but if it is, it does not alter the main point - the Divine revelation is the point of distinction between not-knowing and knowing God. Before this occurred, men and women would go about their business, thinking and feeling, but all the time remaining oblivious (or relatively oblivious) to what was really going on as regards the Divine source. 
 
Thus we see that the initial faith required to receive God can, and often does, begin with rational enquiry. That is why faith has to be a gift - it flows from various streams, but it needs supporting banks. It does not involve stepping outside of science and philosophy and history - it involves taking them with us into the water. It is a transcendent experience, one that must come from God not from ourselves. Of course, many will continue to think that belief in God is excessive and superfluous; and I suppose, for them, it is if we take into account only what they have seen thus far. But there are two points that ought to be observed here. In the first place, if we are going to accuse Christianity of being excessive and superfluous, we must re-examine how we approach our analysis of life itself; for almost all of our earthly analyses go beyond absolute demonstrable proof. In the second place, if such a revelation occurs, we must expect it to appear excessive to all those who do not have it. But it is a great mistake to assume that Christianity offers anything to the contrary. That is why we are offered the chance to seek with all our hearts and find.  If our analysis of the Christian faith was formed every time on the basis of our rejecting the external excessiveness, we would have very few Christians in the world and almost no adult converts. The obscurantism put forward by the sceptics was never their innovation, it was, and always will be, their affliction. 
 
No, Christianity demands that we transcend, or attempt to transcend, rational enquiry for a brief moment, not aside from rational enquiry but because of rational enquiry; for all sensible minds know that a real, all-inclusive, rational enquiry about Divine revelation must involve a step into something beyond human rationality itself. This moment does not involve the suspending of human reasoning, it involves the receiving of a different kind of reason altogether; reason that comes into us from Christ Jesus. It is His first of many gifts to us in our long and exciting journey with Him. It is the gift of initial faith - a faith which will reveal to us all the glories of the Divine promise which is fulfilled in Christ. The hardest part of faith is never in His giving, it is in our asking; for even the initial step towards the first kind of faith is a gift from Christ Himself. Seek and you will find? Absolutely. Ask and you shall receive? Certainly. The question has always been, are we prepared to ask, and are we ready to receive?
  
Another message next week.

The views carried here are those of the author, not of Network Norwich, and are intended to stimulate constructive debate between website users. We welcome your thoughts and comments, posted below, upon the ideas expressed here. You can also contact the author direct at james.knight@norfolk.gov.uk 

James is a Norwich local government officer, author and Proclaimers church member in Norwich.
  You can access his current collections of columns here

Meanwhile, if you want to find out more about Christianity, visit:
www.rejesus.co.uk 

 

 

 

Feedback:
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Judy Halsey07/11/2008 16:35
Yes James. Indeed. As someone takes that step of faith to enquire more about God, God WILL show more of Himself to that person. All come to faith in Jesus in different ways and through different processes.

God has loved all with an everlasting love. Even before anyone is born, He knows them and will draw them to Himself and reveal Himself. Having done everything to make the way to have a relationship with Him, giving His only Son to die for that, He desires so much that all will enter that relationship.

Yes. Seek God and you WILL find Him!
John Payne (Guest)10/11/2008 14:52
Thanks Tim, I'm enjoying your analysis of faith 1 and faith 2. I'm always struck by the consistant failure of both mechanistic and personal choices to achieve the stated aims of success and happiness. The present credit cruch is a failure of mechanism. I'm surrounded here by lives ruined by poor personal choices. My faith inspired choice seems pretty good by comparison.
James Knight (Guest)12/11/2008 09:35
Hi Tim,

Thanks for a very interesting response to my article (and thanks to Judy and John for some very helpful follow-ups). Sorry for my delay in responding but I’ve been spending the last few days trying to empty a very full Inbox.

I agree with the drift of your thoughts, our minds do make a sharp distinction between two kinds of objects - mathematics and personality. I was going to suggest in my article that the first kind of faith pertained to the former and the second kind the latter (although naturally they overlap), and elaborate a bit, but I was conscious of straying into areas that might be too complex for an article of that kind.

Looking at some of your points.

1) “Much of our thinking about mechanisms seems to be under conscious control and much of that thinking can be articulated and formalized using mathematical tokens. When faced with personality however, prefabricated results come to the conscious foreground of our minds with no little or no access to who knows what background processes and influences have created them. In short much of our interaction with other personalities, Divine or otherwise, is unaccountable to our consciousness; it is unconscious. “

Yes, ‘personality consciousness’ itself is the tip of an iceberg, the biggest parts of which contain deep and mysterious pre-consciousness and sub-consciousness. Although there are some very interesting stories of especial mathematical abilities lurking in people’s subconscious and emerging into consciousness at rather queer times. Gauss and Reimann spring to mind. Plus, have you of heard of Shakuntala Devi? Also, who was that Indian mathematician with the peculiar ability, the guy that died really young? I think Godfrey Hardy took him under his wing at Cambridge University. Ramajan or something like that? I can’t quite remember. Extraordinary abilities though.

Regarding personality - because of this background processes difficulty, there exists the problem of creational concepts obscuring one’s chances of having clarity of mind in supplication; that is to say, I think the human mind becomes enchanted by ‘selection’ itself - the over-embracing of Darwinism (thank goodness it’s true), but now we are taking our ‘selectional’ proclivities further - in fact, as far as they will go in the stratosphere - to a natural selection-esqe imputation regarding creation itself, involving multiple universes and all sorts of other things.

For me this has two ramifying points of note:

1) The postulation of these multiple explanations seeks to explain the whole interlocking system itself, and, via a rather circuitous form of self-referencing, attempts to have nature explained - replacing God with ‘selection’ itself.

2) All things considered, debates about harmonisation and compatibility regarding Darwinian evolution in the face of theism seem rather trivial and superfluous.

2) “Unless we are severely autistic our ability to handle and understand other personalities/minds just seems to be there, up, running and working. We have no need to construct a theory of personality from first principles before we are capable of interacting with people.”

I agree, and I think there’s an easy explanation why. Our brains needed to evolve into personality brains far more than mathematical brains - survival and reproduction via Natural Selection required far more of the former (the latter seems very deliberately installed by the Divine, which I’ll come to in a moment)

3) “The sheer unaccountable complexity of interpersonal relations hide so many unknowns that it defies a straightforward sorting of its mental cognita into true and false propositions. Many other factors impact interpersonal relationships beyond what is simply judged “true and false”. “

Yes, and again I think it is to do with our evolution. Survival and reproduction is a much broader spectrum than what one might call “binary true/false systems in survival and reproduction”

4) “If we define rationality in terms of only what is accountable to us and only what self awareness reveals to us, then on this definition, inter-personal relations will automatically classify as irrational. However I myself prefer the term ‘intuitive’ rather than ‘irrational’. As Pascal once said “The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing” hinting perhaps that the fundamental difference between heart and reason is not rationality per se but the difference between an explicit rationality and the implicit rationality of something that is not readily accessible to conscious inspection.”

Absolutely!! And by the way, the above is one of my favourite quotes. Scarcely have ten short words said so much about human beings. Regarding what you said about “…perhaps the fundamental difference between heart and reason is not rationality per se but the difference between an explicit rationality and the implicit rationality of something that is not readily accessible to conscious inspection” - agreed and I think that goes some way to explaining people’s inherent resistance to faith-based belief systems. It also causes one to become rather distracted by things that are readily accessible to conscious cognition, what one might call the '‘easily-manageable things'’, again summed up brilliantly by Pascal…

5) “If a gulf of complexity is what differentiates mechanism and personality then our mental handling of both the mechanical and the personal could conceivably come under the heading of a single category of rationality, obviating the need for dualism.

Yes, this is at the core of my views on ‘reasoning’ itself.

6) “For if interpersonal relations are the subject of such an intricate application of rationality that it defies human conscious cognition to be self-aware of its underlying processes, then this may be sufficient to explain the distinction between mechanism and personality, between “faith 1” and “faith 2”. “

Due to sublimity, it is difficult to ascertain the processes behind mechanism and personality, and this goes for “faith 2” as well, because I think “faith 2” has a subsistence all by itself in everyday things. Faith 1, and a genuine search for Christ, results in revelation and, thus, it results in the ‘certainty’ that the writer of Hebrews spoke about (Hebrews 11:1 - faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see). I don’t think any such certainty comes with the subsisting “faith 2” outside of that which God gives us - in fact, I think God does some of His best work in us when we are uncertain about subsisting things.

7) “This is the big question that vexes Artificial Intelligence researchers: Is the difference between mechanism and personality a sharp qualitative or one of a vast gulf of complexity? Is it merely distance that separates mechanism and personality, a distance occupied by a continuum running from the amoeba, through the insects, through the small mammals, and the higher mammals like cats, dogs and chimpanzees, to finally humans? “

Do you mean the complexity of information itself and the generation time in evolution? Does it naturally follow that the greater the assembly time the greater the complexity? Probably. Although ‘complexity’ is a tricky word bec
James Knight (Guest)12/11/2008 09:39
ause there is no single measure that can take hold of all structural characteristics. Sometimes it’s less about complexity and more about functionality. If you align my Subaru and a Tractor together, complexity is less important when considering the relative functions of each - the Engine Management System in my Subaru is more complex than anything in the Tractor but it won’t improve the Tractor’s functionality.

Lesser organisms will have complexities that we cannot understand, and equally we will have behavioural complexities that lesser-organisms won’t understand (and a great many other things too). They used to think that the amount of DNA in a genome correlated with the complexity of an organism; that is, the more complex the species the more genes it needed (they didn’t know about repetitive sequences in those days). Today we know that there isn't a direct correlation between genome size and complexity - in fact, you’ll find that mammals don't have any more DNA in their genome than a great many plants. As far as organisms go, it seems that complexity is a scientific phenomenon whose consensual hierarchy has not been agreed upon. I guess if we can’t define it satisfactorily we can’t create a hierarchical system. I am certain that by many scientific measures of complexity we humans must be lower down than some animals, but higher on many others. Although even at a molecular level, plants have complexity that we do not posses, in that they can survive on sunlight and water. The thing is, Tim, there might be aspects of the tomato and the onion that are higher than us on the hierarchical system, but I find it’s best to keep it quiet in public. If you tell a man he has about the same complexity as a Ploughman’s Lunch, he might get rather insecure, haha!

As for Artificial Intelligence. The big question has always been - is there anything else out there? For me the picture of creation is so glorious that I won’t rule it out either way. Although I have a sneaking suspicion that we are the only creatures in ‘this one’ of God’s universes. As for beyond….who knows? What do you think? I once wrote something on this subject - I’ll add it on as an appendix should you, or anyone else, be interested in reading it.

8) “To me there is one thing that does suggest a qualitative difference between mechanism and personality. Although I accept as a conjecture/working hypothesis that one day human personality may be able to describe itself in terms of a vastly complicated working mechanism, there is in my view one ingredient that sets humans, and even cats and dogs, apart from mere formal mechanism. When faced with personality we impute an ontology of consciousness and a microcosm of feeling behind the complex façade we interface with. Consciousness seems to be a quality that sheer mechanism, no matter how complex, just doesn’t have. Personality looks to be mechanism plus, just as God, presumably is personality plus. We know what it feels like to be human or even a cat or a dog, but being a mechanism feels like nothing at all!”

Yes, absolutely, consciousness is certainly a quality that sheer mechanism just doesn’t have, it is as though creaturely sentience is itself is simulation of Divine sentience, in fact, the whole Simulacrum is like an active mind. Personally I would counsel against using “there is in my view one ingredient that sets humans, and even cats and dogs apart from mere formal mechanism”, for although cats and dogs might be higher than formal mehanisms, I am certain that human selfhood requires a distinctive place of grandeur all on its own

By the way, the Pascal quote (which I forgot to install above) is this...

"Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes its fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way. Thus so wretched is man that he would be weary even without any cause for weariness... and so frivolous is he that, though full of a thousand reasons for weariness, the least thing, such as playing billiards or hitting a ball, is sufficient enough to amuse him."

Great stuff!
James Knight (Guest)12/11/2008 09:41
Interestingly, as an aside, your Personality/Mechanism distinction reminded me of an area I am working in to do with cognition and potential, called ‘Character and Operation’. Character involves things like personality, socio-personal, feelings, emotions, etc, and Operation involves logic and mathematics (although of course, just like personality and mechanism, the two can overlap).

This is a big argument against naturalism.

If you see the interlocking system as a platonic process analogous to computer algorithms that can search for a solution, the probability of the above producing ‘intelligence’ seems to me to be a big fat zero (I will elaborate on why I think this in a moment), but for now let me just say, naturalistic pre-Intelligence processes have no real cosmological counterpart for the transition to Intelligence processing, not by themselves using purely mathematical constraints. Remember this has nothing to do with thermodynamics, this is purely a mathematical model. The problem of climbing the sheer face of moving from the naturalistic non-intelligent to the functioning intelligence, particularly one that claims to understand the system set-up, is absurd, i.e. from a mathematically ‘non-intelligent’ universe to one that can translate encoded intelligence sequences into instructions that direct the construction of useful ‘reasoning’ in organisms (as per evolution) and can distil from that process a cognitive purchase on the system itself. It’s as though God has said, ‘Look how obvious I am everyone...you exist because I exist”. I have always said that Reason itself is God’s megaphone to rouse a ‘partially asleep’ world - the fact that any of us can use reasoning in the way we do seems to be a miracle, certainly to those that can see a clear picture of the cosmos and how reasoning would be so anomalous in such a naturalistic system (certainly at the level that we humans can use our reasoning powers).

In science we spend our time bringing together information and ideas on how to assess variable and diverse protocols and bring them into exquisite theoretical descriptions. That is what science is, in a nutshell. But the moment we try the same with Reason we hit a scientific nonentity. We find that Reason is something else altogether. I am already defining Reason as the ultimate primacy from God, the force that Stephen Hawking wondered about when he spoke of ‘fire breathed into the universe’.

It is easy to see the distinction when we look at ‘reasoning’ via Natural Selection. Given such a model analytical analysis is easy because we know what we ‘should’ see in given places, and we can easily get a cognitive purchase on how the analytical system works as a whole: that is, the complete evolutionary picture (although too vast for one human mind) can be sampled sufficiently for the drawing of sound scientific conclusions.

But more importantly, regarding AoR…

Such a system in which we do all of our reasoning is also the creator of our reasoning (in the sense of micro-creation) - that is to say, in the biological sense natural selection is responsible for our reasoning, therefore it’s easy to see why the naturalists are seeing through a rather dusky lens with the distracting metaphors of ‘nature’.

This ‘concomitance’ between thought and nature is part of a big mathematical system; that is, bigger than anything we will find in Energy, or in Biology, or in ‘reasoning’ via Natural Selection. Seeing the cosmos as a mathematical whole, I see absolutely no reason why naturalism should have provided us with a cognition that probes nature’s complete mathematical system, particularly as you will not find anything in Natural Selection that comes close to explaining it. Our fecund imagination and cognitive abilities regarding mathematics seem very much like a miracle, but of course they won’t to anyone who doesn’t understand mathematics because, as I said, they seem forever distracted by nature’s metaphors (and understandably so). Human fecundity seems far too big and complex for any of the subsystems in nature; that is, the sheer potential of cognition does not fit into Energy, Biology, or ‘reasoning’ via Natural Selection, for even the mass potential of collective reasoning does not come close. Perhaps the best way to see Reason for what it really is, is to consider the enormous leap that one must take if we go from relatively simple Natural Selection right up to the mind’s fantastic ability to do something that shocked even Einstein, to comprehend something that should be incomprehensible, the mathematical interworkings of the cosmos itself. This might be the one of the two biggest cases for Absoluteness of Reason, the other being logical necessity and the self-refuting nature of naturalism that I discussed with you on my Theory of Everything page.
James Knight (Guest)12/11/2008 09:42
This comprehensibility factor shows something remarkable - it shows us that human beings, via Natural Selection, are able to carry out this incredible mathematical perceptivity necessary for unlocking the door to nature’s secrets. And if this doesn’t sound strange to us, I think we are seriously underestimating the reality here, for we see that it is as though nature’s mathematical secrets are attuned to human capabilities, far transcendent of anything that natural selection could conjure up (particularly bearing in mind that mathematics does not aid survival or reproduction, and neither the biological nor the cultural nor the social are captured by mathematics).

What we see is that the two biggest hints that nature is a miracle involve the fecundity of human minds, and how those minds are attuned to capturing the mathematical whole. Considering the Bible says that the universe was specially created for us, it certainly seems that God fixed in our minds the capacity to understand our special position in creation and, in the second place, the knowledge that the universe was created for us seems to be mathematically instantiated in cognition itself.

Of course, a sceptic could try and argue against this by saying that the laws of nature seem mathematical because we define laws as mathematical, but that poses two difficulties. 1) It still leaves unexplained why we evolved this mathematical ability in the first place, and 2) Nature’s message seems to be encrypted in a very specific way and that way seems to have no correlation with evolution at all. In other words underwritten logical necessity bears no relation either to a naturalistic universe or to evolution itself, yet both are instantiated in mathematics and cognition itself. Even if we could conceive an Omnipotent being, we could not conceive a situation where He could make a triangle a circle or 2 + 2 add up to both 4 and 5, therefore logic itself has a strong grip on cognition. That is why when faced with the truth that there does exist necessary propositions, the idea of God as a necessary proposition is not inconsistent either with nature or with cognition.

Also, consider this statement “There exists one true fact”. Call this S1. Is S1 necessarily true? Suppose I offer an alternative contention that it is not true. Call this proposition S2 “S1 is false”. But if S1 is false, so is S2 because S2 is a contention and if S1 is false there are no true statements, so S1 must be true. Therefore under the principles of underwritten logical necessity, there must exist true propositions. And given the fact that under any principles of underwritten logical necessity the universe should not exist at all, it therefore contains no necessary truths, and if the necessary truth outside of the universal principle must logically exist, one can claim that existence itself is a necessary truth. I don’t know about you, but to me, that sounds perfectly compatible with the Aseity of God - His is the only existence that is necessary. I understand if that is a leap too far, after all it is only a theoreticised notion, but it’s funny that something instantiated in our cognition - logical truth itself - contains an axiom that insists on existence as a necessary truth itself.

James
James Knight (Guest)12/11/2008 10:21
APPENDIX

ALIENS OR NO ALIENS?
Are we alone or not? One ought to be mindful, first off, of the way that either contention is used by the atheists (rather mendaciously, as it happens) against Christianity. They say that if we are the only life in the whole universe that must prove that our being here is merely the result of the sheerest fluke. If, however, there are other planets which contain life of some sort that must prove that we are not the special creation that the Bible claims we are. Both contentions are, of course, equally spurious - but it is easy to see how atheists like to have it all their own way.

Both propositions imply that we know exactly what we should expect when thinking about the creation. But the trouble is, we do not know of another sort of universe - therefore we cannot say, as some foolish atheists have (including professor Dawkins), that if there were a God the universe would be a vastly different universe to the one that we perceive. It is very easy to see the cardinal difficulty with this ridiculous contention - ‘different’ implies knowledge of something alternative of which we can have no clue. If a dressmaker states that a particular piece of clothing has been sewn wrong her argument is rational because she has a clear idea of what the correct stitch pattern should look like. If we make the same claim regarding our universe - if we say that a universe that was created by a God would have a ‘better stitch pattern’, we must know what a better stitch pattern would be - and, of course, we can make no suggestion without speaking nonsense.

For me ‘creation’ has got that special feel about it - it seems ‘just right’. If the laws of nature were simple enough that we might understand them with the Hubble telescope we would never receive any hints of its sublimity. If it were so incomprehensible that our activity was limited to our own surface area we would have no sense of anything outside of this planet.

A further point about life on other planets - such life would not prove that we were any less special in God’s eyes (although I do not doubt that knowledge of which might have a negative effect on some people’s psychology). But if it did, it would be our old enemy ‘pride’ rearing its ugly head again. Perhaps these creatures are nothing like us, perhaps they do not need salvation in the same way that we do - perhaps they need it more. But the fact of their existence would not diminish the special nature of our own existence. We, as flawed creatures, have this awful habit (both in the Christian world and in the secular) of thinking of creation as though its sole purpose is to gratify our deepest suspicions by displaying answers to every universal thing. Do not misunderstand me, it is great that we have the capacity to discover more about our universe (and perhaps one day beyond) but we sometimes act as though any piece of information left undisclosed lends itself to blithe indifference if we happen to find it convenient.

But we know one very interesting thing - that none who have come to know Christ have ever complained about the lack of evidence - for as they have come to know Him - the Spirit and mind have touched just as a hand fits in a glove. Sometimes it might itch, sometimes it might like to wriggle free, sometimes it might feel too warm, but there is never any doubt that the hand and the glove were made to fit together. If there ever comes a point when the atheist becomes disquieted at the bleak thought that there is no intelligence behind our universe, he would multiply that disquietude by a trillion if he got the first hint of what he was rejecting. To become preoccupied with the progression of this planet and forget about the infinite story (and the finiteness of nature) is like letting all the bank notes blow away in the breeze because you are too preoccupied with finding the penny that fell to the ground.

The universe existed for around ten billion years before the earth began to form some 4.6 billion years ago, therefore it is worth considering that if there is intelligent life on other planets much of it is probably a lot more advanced than we are. Thus the chances could be that such life would be able to find us by now. However that is conjecture - an interesting idea, but conjecture nonetheless. If intelligent life exists on other planets, we must assume one of three things, either they do not have the capacity to search far enough to find us, or they do have the capacity but have not stumbled upon us yet, or thirdly they know we exist but are way too advanced to even want to find us; that is, the notional probability that they have reached such advanced levels - like that of artificial intelligence - which brings with it no necessity to contact us.

If either is true another interesting question, for me, would be what sort of creatures would they be? Presumably they evolved from carbon-based origins (silicon is unlikely) - a primordial soup of some kind - therefore one wonders if natural selection on their planet would produce anything like us. Let us suppose for the sake of argument that other creatures alive in the same universe would operate in a similar way to the way in which we operate. If such life does exist, I, as a Christian, would have to say that they too were created by God. It is true that they might not be fallen creatures like we are, equally true that they might be more fallen - perhaps their method of salvation is different to ours, perhaps they need no such salvation. Either way, we might not know until the end - we only know what it is like for us on earth. However, judging by the way that we have treated those who are less-capable and less-powerful than us, if there were such creatures in the universe who are less developed than us, it might be better for them if we never find them.

Best wishes

James
Timothy V Reeves (Guest)13/11/2008 12:51
Hi James:

Shakuntala Dev: I once saw a program on him. But however good or bad we are at maths, or however its conclusions are arrived at, in the final analysis it is accountable to conscious inspection.

Selection: Yes, you’re right it’s becoming an explanatory catch-all: but, needless to say selection can’t work on absolutely nothing: there must be something rather than nothing to boot strap selection! As I have always said, if science is more about pattern description and algorithmics then in one sense science explains nothing at all in absolute terms.

Pascal: I’d grant, although some atheists would hate me for it, that the very belief and experience of God should be considered when weighing the evidence for deity. There is an element of self-affirmation in faith here: but, and this is an important but, this ‘faith’ evidence must be part of a wider context of evidence otherwise anything goes if unaccountable intuitions are given full authority.

Complexity: yes complexity as concept is very complex! It’s a multi-dimensional concept rather than a one-dimensional spectrum and some forms off complexity may be incommensurable with other forms. E.g. a single bit could be considered as very complex if it is read as either a “yes” or a “no” after a very long search. I don’t think there ever will be one measure of complexity, because it’s dealing with the incompressible and will therefore will always be very narrative intense. However, for the point I was making a nuanced view of complexity isn’t required. Beside there is a form of complexity that is hierarchal: i.e. structural forms that are hierarchies of parts. Consider e.g. atoms, radicals, organic molecules, amoeba, nematode, human body, human behavior, society, history: here we have hierarchy of layers: components and super-components. The question I asked really amounted to: can personality describe its self in terms of componential layering? We see a similar building of parts from smaller parts in software: bits, words, algorithms, programs, processes, suites, systems etc.

AofR: I’m still pondering this matter and your writings on this subject are part of my deliberations. Reason seems to be reality in its most general and abstracted form: atomic tokens, sequence, manipulations etc. Its self affirming and self reference nature (e.g your “there is one true fact”), suggests that once we throw away mere possibility we are left with the irreducibly true and the irreducibly true would seem to demand a mind to think it. This smacks of Aseity.

Evolution of Humans: Yes as I have said before, we seem rather over-engineered as a mere survival machines!

Aliens: like you “I have a sneaking suspicion that we are the only creatures in ‘this one’ of God’s universe”, but I was interested to read you exploration of the possibilities here.
James Knight (Guest)17/11/2008 16:59
Hi Tim,

Touching on one or two of your points

"But however good or bad we are at maths, or however its conclusions are arrived at, in the final analysis it is accountable to conscious inspection."

It seems to me that part of this extraordinary fecundity (the over-engineering as survival machines) is linked to our extraordinary mathematical abilities - particularly relevant to the question, If 'reasoning' is such a latecomer in the cosmological story that is nature, how did natural selection provide us with the mathematical capacity to understand the complete mathematical platonic whole? You might be right that all abilities are accountable to conscious inspection, however, the ability to 'consciously inspect' might equally be embedded in the self same extraordinary fecundity.

"However, for the point I was making a nuanced view of complexity isn’t required. Beside there is a form of complexity that is hierarchal: i.e. structural forms that are hierarchies of parts. Consider e.g. atoms, radicals, organic molecules, amoeba, nematode, human body, human behavior, society, history: here we have hierarchy of layers: components and super-components."

Yes, I realise the are subset hierarchies, I was really referring to a widespread reticence in defining the whole system itself under any strict hierarchy given that much under the domain of 'complexity is hard to compare at a constituent level. Which leads me to...

"The question I asked really amounted to: can personality describe itself in terms of componential layering? We see a similar building of parts from smaller parts in software: bits, words, algorithms, programs, processes, suites, systems etc."

It seems to me that personality cannot describe itself in terms of componential layering, simply because we have to impute our own reified image or figure or symbol or illustration or metaphor to 'personality', thus personality is not something that we can turn on itself and identify outside of the layering we put in. I think personality is too big for such isolated imputations, although what we can do with it is, of course, extremely important and helpful.

James
Timothy V Reeves (Guest)18/11/2008 20:17
Thanks for the insightful comments James. Here are the 'Open Gospel' links you asked for:

http://viewsnewsandpews.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_archive.html
http://viewsnewsandpews.blogspot.com/2006/08/fighting-christians.html

These links used to be in the comments section of the Florida Outpouring page, but I think Keith laid holy hands on his keyboard and 'bam', 'kapow', this comments section was outpouring all over his carpet.

Funny that because when I laid hands on my keyboard a couple of days before, 'bam' 'kapow', next thing I knew said section was outpouring into my archive bucket.
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