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Will all be saved in the end?

JamesKnight300Regular Network Norwich and Norfolk columnist James Knight looks at the controversial issue of salvation.

 


 

I want to spend a few messages analysing a pretty complex issue – the issue of salvation. Will we all be saved in the end? Will only some of us? Opinions are heavily divided, and have been since the 1st century. We’ve come to that point in the messages where the most devastating proposition ever conceived (Hell) comes face to face with the proposition that all either desire (Heaven), or wish it were true, or in a few cases, won’t entertain the idea of belief unless the latter is ensured and the former is made up as falsehood. Before we talk about heaven and hell, I think we ought to look at how Christians have probably messed up quite badly in getting ‘hell’ so wrong. 

 

The two biggest extremist in Christianity seem to be, firstly, those who preach a gospel of judgment in which they feel called to terrify children (and adults) with threats of hellfire, and secondly, those who adopt an anti science position (denying things like evolution) and accuse anyone who doesn’t conform to their beliefs as being reproachable. On the surface this is a problem that opens old wounds, but I think the underlying intent of Christians who do this is probably based on a form of decency. In the same way that creationists have a genuine desire to act faithfully to the gospel by feeling threatened by an evolution that they believe undermines the great commission, I believe that those who preach hellfire and employ scare tactics are themselves overwhelmed with a troubling persona. The desire for moral probity has somehow been twisted into pathological insecurity, which is what is behind the threats and warnings. But the inferiority complex is compensated for by believing that in pointing others towards their sins they are doing God’s work. 

 

As a rule, I have enough faith that humans can continually survive an in depth reality test whereby the quotient of beneficial growth can be met and sustained, even aside from threats of damnation. As always, the hard reality of the Christian life goes on for most, at least in as much as it is capable of surviving the best test by which conscious cognition probes for that reality; namely, that human beings comprehensively submit to (at the very least) a theoretical simulation of collectivity in individualism and individualism in collectivity.  With that in mind, idle threats of hellfire are only likely to bother those who are too young to know how to protect themselves, those who are too intellectually pliable to have proper independence of mind, and those who are willing to subject themselves to the thrall of the powerful in order to lessen the burden of personal responsibility.  To this extent, such people have a necessary emotional involvement, and they are not likely to be swayed by arguments that point towards the primacy of outrageous grace and love.

 

The driving desire to do God’s will is itself a good thing, and I would suggest that God’s outrageous grace and love is so grand, and His heart so spacious, that He will be able to see the best in you, in recognition of your good intentions, far more than other humans will. If I may be permitted to suggest something, I think focusing on love and grace makes us more emotionally astute, and improves our acumen for seeing the potential in others – therefore those who are convinced that for some hell is the ultimate destiny might be better deferring judgement altogether, and accepting that God can be trusted to see things that you or I have no business thinking we can see.

 

The cross is superior to any form of legalism. And it ought to be noted that drawing all to Himself is a fairly explicit promise that God’s love and grace will supersede His judgment. This is particularly relevant as we are also told that we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear – so I doubt whether the issue of ‘Can one lose one’s salvation?’ was ever really an issue to begin with. The Bible tells us to defer judgment and trust God, and that is the most we can do. But notice that this leads us to an inevitable precipice; we are plainly aware that we are not cajoled into deferring judgment and trusting God – if we choose we can preach hellfire and block out the signals of grace and love that Christianity is intent on sending. This means that for a time being, while we are still responsible for our own subjective interpretation or God, the mind has a big say on what sort of disciples we are. Even the power of grace and love in scripture won’t retain its force if we choose to stand in the way of it and allow our own insecurities to disfigure the gospel

 

If after reading this section you have found my demeanour a little frank, you will, I hope, forgive me. The reason you may sense this is because I cannot abide all this pernicious talk of hellfire. My first introduction to Christianity involved meeting people who were very outspoken in telling people they were going to be sent to hell if they didn’t become Christians. What I object to is that this sort of talk rarely does any good – I do not think that there is the first hint in the New Testament that Christians are to bring in on themselves to issue such threats. In fact, when it comes to judgment, all we are called to do is believe that there is nothing we can do to improve our chances - because we are told that we can do nothing but trust God when He says that Christ has it covered – our debts are paid, and they are debts for which He shows us that only dying would put us right with God. 

 

For this reason I will disclose my position on universalism, because I do not think it is a subject about which we can speak dogmatically (either for or against) – it is worth drawing special attention to trusting God; in trust, I believe that what we are permitted to do is to ‘hope’ it is true, because to hope for the eventual salvation of everyone is the position that every Christian ought to be compelled to take, and one with which he or she remains beyond impeachment.

 

This rather has the opposite effect of Greek mythology, and perhaps that's why Zeus included "hope" in Pandora's Box - seeing it as shaving off trust and leaving hope that one's future is in one's control and not the gods. In contrast, St Paul was delighted to put his life in Christ’s control, and that is where he tells us true blessedness will be achieved - so in that sense 'hoping' for universalism is a hope that is beyond reproach.

 

So my position is this; I wouldn't call myself a hard universalist - I'm more of a 'Go where the logic and emotions take me' kind of guy - which has led me to believing that Divine love won't have done its work until all are with Him in Heaven. This issue can't be solved with a priori or a posteriori considerations, so the best one can be is a 'Trust God implicitly' proponent, then it is win-win. On a scale of 1-10 where 1 = Hellfire-preaching extremist and 10 = out and out universalist, I would consider myself a hard 8 or a soft 9. 

 

HellFireAs a general comment regarding universalism, the Bible inerrancy issue, and other perennial issues that plague our faith - it is quite clear from the way people defend their hellfire, their Bible inerrancy, and the rest, that they are riding a vehicle that they find all but impossible to abandon, even though it must be known subliminally that they in control of an old rust bucket that needs new tyres and a most of the engine parts replacing. This is because these viewpoints are almost entirely cultural or locally fostered. If one comes from a church or a background then those beliefs will be like the old family car that the head of the house just will not trade in, and continues to insist that that car will never pack in. The healthiest escape from this stasis is to endeavor to cultivate a studied detachment from the vehicle(s) you're driving. This is a committed declaration for an MOT trial, if you like.

 

I think history clearly shows that the idea of this eternal torment with literal pain and flame-fuelled suffering occurred when pagan religions became mixed into Christian cultures, and clearly draining this swamp has proved pretty difficult, particularly when so many power hungry control freaks try to keep it in for their own horrible personal gain.  Those who preach the worst kinds of hell are mostly those with the most hellish personality.  But clearly, this is why Christ was so against religion, and His warnings so prescient, because God is love, and it is through a ‘relationship’ with Him that this love blesses and develops, and it is through ‘religion’ that this blessing is retarded and disfigured.

 

God is love, He is not the God of man's religion, the scriptures are very clear in speaking about all the apostasy of religion, because religion is modeled after man's disfigured perception of God used for their own ways, whereas relationship is modeled after God’s own heart for His people – those who have seen God in Christ have seen the real nature of the Father, not as some megalomaniac tyrant, but as a God of supreme love and grace – a God who would become what we are so that we could become like Christ.

 

I think hell, that is, the real reality of hell, will have nothing to do with flames and torture (that’s just a silly interpretation) the real pain of hell will be, I presume, rather like human heartbreak but on the grandest scale of all – a place absent of God, where one has chosen to live away from Him – a state of privation; a place where the true and real absence of God is fully realised, and where a person's creaturely position - that of being created to know God and to enjoy heavenly bliss - is made known.  T.S. Eliot captured the pain of this realisation, in his poem ‘Little Gidding’, from the ‘Four Quartets’ by speaking about being in the presence of God’s love, and how it is only love that discharges us from sin and error:

 

The dove descending breaks the air
With flame of incandescent terror
Of which the tongues declare
The one discharge from sin and error.
The only hope, or else despair
Lies in the choice of pyre of pyre—
To be redeemed from fire by fire.

Who then devised the torment? Love.
Love is the unfamiliar Name
Behind the hands that wove
The intolerable shirt of flame
Which human power cannot remove.
We only live, only suspire
Consumed by either fire or fire.

 

That is why, when it comes to fear of hell, I abhor all this scare-talk – because it is so far from the true answer of love.  I suppose the only thing I could say that would constitute a justification for some kind of warning would be that if God didn’t make it known what awesome potential we have with Him we would have no urgency to come to Him and perhaps even no tangible reason to think about our eternal destination.  We do not have a docile Sky-Uncle who one can lock away under the stairs when the Christmas party starts, rather we have a supremely powerful Father God who has great things for us should we choose to accept them.

 

And presumably, the torment of Hell can only be quantified as a comparison to the glory of Heaven, just as the feeling of not being in love is only felt in its fullness when the absence of that love is most tangible.  Only when the heart is broken does the absence of love become unbearable, and I presume the torment of hell will be of that kind. Although the Bible clearly intimates that Hell will be an awful place, I really do think that it is a big mistake for a man to recognise that the God he worships is all-loving (as seen in the person of Jesus) and then go on to contradict himself by saying that such a God could subject finite humans to eternal torture.  I’m amazed that so few Christians can see the contradiction here, particularly as so many atheists can see it quite clearly, and I don’t really know what those who preach hellfire are getting out of it – they certainly do not seem like content believers.

 

Christ is all about inclusion – the gruesome end to His life is perhaps so shocking that all cannot fail to be affected by it. Scripture says His suffering was greater than that of any man, and I can’t help but think in the deepest parts of our most inner-being we can all relate to that a lot more than many of us care to admit. The tragedy of the human condition is a cross we all have to bear because our empathy and solicitude locks us into it – and in the case of our own sins, ability to hurt each other, and willful neglect of the right path, such tragedy is like a bruise on the arm – it is easy to forget for a while but as soon as something presses down on it, the reality of it brings a dull pain. 

 

That’s a brief introduction. Next time I will look at the big philosophical problem that underlies this issue, and how we can go about solving it.


The views carried here are those of the author, not of Network Norwich and Norfolk, and are intended to stimulate constructive debate between website users. We welcome your thoughts and comments, posted below, upon the ideas expressed here. You can also contact the author direct at james.knight@norfolk.gov.uk  

James is a Norwich local government officer, author and Proclaimers church member in Norwich.
You can access his current collections of columns here

Meanwhile, if you want to find out more about Christianity, visit: www.rejesus.co.uk
Feedback:
richard pennington19/01/2011 20:12
james
i think all christians find talk of eternal punishment difficult-however Jesus himself had less compunction and it seems to me that to reject the doctrine really involves replacing what jesus taught in his ministry with what we wished he had taught-matthew 25 is pretty categoric ...wayne grudem's systematic theology has a very useful section on this
richard
James Knight19/01/2011 20:36
Richard, it is a tricky subject, which is why I am not wedded to either position - I'm just examining the arguments for both sides and seeing how far I can take this.

But the sort of talk that says "the doctrine really involves replacing what jesus taught in his ministry" and "matthew 25 is pretty categoric" is not something we can assume or accept so easily. If it were that straightforward there would be nothing much to explore in the coming weeks. There is though - plenty.

One thing to lighten the tone - I am not overly emotionally attached to either doctrine, so I promise to give a fair account of this tricky subject.
Tom Chapman20/01/2011 15:52
My first attempt at a response did not appear. At the risk of repeating myself...
I'm with Richard on this one James. Tough as it is the main biblical exponent of hell is Jesus himself - are you accusing him of scare tactics? If he did not think it a reaity, then he is as guilty of manipulation as anyone. Eternal punishment is presented as the parallel to eternal life in Matthew 25 - I don't see how you can keep one and lose the other.

Of course there are aspects of the doctrine worth reconsideration - the exact nature of hell for example. Tim Keller has some interesting thought on this.

Likewise the correct use of hell. I agree that hellfire and damnation are often preached in an unbiblical way. Jesus mainly uses it to warn against religious hypocrisy; Paul (2 Thess 1) and Revelation use it to comfort persecuted Christians. Rarely is it presented in an evangelistic message - the nearest we get in the sermons in Acts, for example, is ch 17 v.31. It is never used to scare people into superficial obedience, and we should never do so.

However, I think the fact that Jesus taught it is pretty inescapable. It is a topic I hate to preach on and avoid when I can - but Jesus ultimately will not let me do that, and there comes a point when we must submit our thoughts and reactions to him.
Paul Willings21/01/2011 10:25
Observations, not comment:
1.Heaven centered emphasis on FUTURE salvation stands in utter contrast to God’s. His emphasis is, and always has been, PRESENT. Our concentration upon us rather than Him reverses this direction.
2.Philosophy is based upon our own understanding and always has divided and destroyed God's succint Word. In utter contrast God calls us to know Him, not about Him.
3.Concerning the Godlessness of Hell, Jesus teaches His disciples, not the world. We may consider to reflect upon why.
4.Man has opinions, interpretations and philosophy. In contrast God entertains none of these.
5.The Bible is, as its author, ONE. We divide it as we divide Him.
6.Ever since we discovered that God made us in His image, we have been making Him in ours.

Comment:
To reflect upon the above could well curtail endless and pointless debate and may advance this article. If not we may build and rely upon our own understanding and turn instead to philosophy, as is stated as intended.
Paul.

James Knight25/01/2011 19:24
Paul Willings:

Just a note - I'm on double shift of fundamentalist-watch at the moment, and you're setting off my radar!

Steve Garner30/01/2011 18:40
I think people must first see the difference between Salvation and Restoration.

Salvation is for the here and now and constrained for the age of mankind. Scripture says even creation groans and travails in pain, yet we are told the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God and this is why the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. The problem of this present age is that most of Christendom preached a false Gospel of eternal torment and damnation, the sons of God need to rise up in this present age to proclaim the All-inclusive Gospel, to help the Lord put all enemies under His feet, which would result in the Lords return to set up His millennium kingdom and ultimately manifest in the restoration of all mankind in the new heaven and earth.

The two main definitions that define a cult or cultist is 1. They deny the true deity of Christ and 2. They undermine the Lords completed work on the cross, so those who believe in the satanic and hideous teaching of eternal torment most definitely fall into the later group, basically they believe in limited atonement leading the way to a different Jesus and another Gospel, Paul said “But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed” .The Lord said “many” will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in your name, and through your name cast out demons, and through your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness. Those who ardently preach eternal torment are not only heretical and desecrate the Fathers forgiveness in Christ they also stand outside the unique Ministry of the New Testament, Paul in second Corinthians 5:18, 19 “And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; whereas God was in Christ reconciling the “world” to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and putting the word of reconciliation in us”.

Regarding the evil and heretical teaching of eternal hell George Hawtin has so aptly written:

"Is it any wonder that in the face of such sadistic humbug there has been a wholesale manufacture of infidels? All these statements (by eternal hell-fire preachers) may be a show of oratorical eloquence, but they are nothing more. They hold no part of truth. They deny every attribute of God. They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe. To say that I believe in such repugnance would be a lie of the first order. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome. Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for the entire world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Worst of all, it frustrates the purpose of God laid down in the beginning when He said, 'Let us make man in our image and after our likeness.' Some will immediately ask me whether I do not believe in hell. My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell, but the hell of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative."

One of the problems why believers don’t see the All-sufficient Grace of Christ is down to bible translations, apart from the Literal Concordant, Rotherham’s Emphasized version, young’s literal, Scarlett New testament and possibly a few others is that today’s English translations are “toxic bibles” as they portray incorrect translations of the Hebrew and Greek words "OLAM", "AION", AND "AIONIOS", which do not refer to eternity, but rather to ages and time. The passages in the King James Bible that are translated to speak of eternal or everlasting punishment, in actuality do speak of age-lasting punishment (correction), or The punishment of the ages. It is punishment within the ages of time for the purpose of correction, but it is surely not eternal torture! We must also see that the purpose of punishment, judgment, vengeance, and the wrath of God is correction, not vindictive, endless torture.

Yet even if we look at the words “aion” and “aionios” outside the context of eternal torment the bibles today present a vague picture of Gods plan in his Economy for mankind. For example if we look at Ephesians 3:11 in the majority of versions today it states "According to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord”. A purpose carries the idea that there is a goal in view, a plan, an aim, a design and a consummation. Are we to think that God has a purpose He will never accomplish? That is what such a translation implies. God has the wisdom and power to accomplish whatever purpose He has conceived. Notice that in the above translation the Greek word aionon, a noun, has been translated as though it were an adjective. That is a serious liberty to be taking with the inspired words of God, aside from using "eternal" where it is clear that limited time is in view. The correct translation should be…

Ephesians 3:11 (Young’s Literal) according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I recently came across this portion of ministry which helps explain the concept of punishment…
_________________________

“Basically the entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture--Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of "eternal punishment" on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.

The Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is "kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time." (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed changing the Greek into English.)

"Aionion," as shown above, is the singular form of the adjective of the Greek noun "aion." Many people unfamiliar with the Greek do not realize that the endings of the same word change (inflection) to indicate its mood, case, gender, etc. Therefore, "aionion" may appear with different endings. "Aionion, aioniou, aionios," for example, are all different inflections of the adjective form of the noun "aion."

The Bible speaks of at least 5 "aions" and perhaps many more. If there were "aions" in the past. This must mean that each one of them have ended for they are now past! The New Testament writers spoke of "the present wicked aion" which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another "aion"-- the "aion" in which we presently live. If there are "aions" to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end.

There is a verse which says "the consummation of the aions" showing that each "aion" ends. So how can they be eternal?

There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30

There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4)

There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7)

There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40)

There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)

"Aonian" is the adjective of the noun "aion."

Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that "aionion" in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean "everlasting" or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time.

For example, "hourly" cannot mean "pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean "pertaining to an hour." Therefore, "aionion," the adjective form of the noun "aion" which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, "forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc) or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.

Therefore, those many Bibles which do NOT contain the teaching of everlasting punishment or Hell are true to the original languages of Greek and Hebrew and those which teach everlasting punishment or Hell are false. Scholars are just as easily subjected to the "traditions of the elders" as the rest of us. It's time to let the original Greek and Hebrew languages of the bible break down the traditions of men”

Another Greek scholar stated “that it is an axiom of grammar that an adjective derived from a noun cannot mean more than its parent word. It must retain the essential meaning pertaining to the noun. As it has been shown, the noun refers to limited time, which had a beginning and will have an end. The adjective, then, should not be translated by such words as "everlasting" or "eternal." The adjective cannot take on a greater meaning than the noun from which it is derived. For example, hourly, an adjective, pertains to an hour, not to a year”.
___________________________

What a most wondrous revelation that the Father didn’t leave mankind in the depths of disappear, so that like the Apostle Paul we to can boldly declare that “For we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly” and “that as by one offense sentence came on all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came to ALL men to justification of life”.

James, you describe yourself as around eight or nine on the universalism scale, praise the Lord He’s given you a spirit of wisdom and revelation regarding His mercy, Grace and All-consuming love, personally l I’m a hard core ten out of ten and I believe if you trace the Universalist thought through Church history you’ll see many familiar names such as Origen, Clement of Alexandria Eusibius, Jerome, William Law, Thomas Allin, A.E. Knoch, William Barclay as well as many, many more who all stood for the truth of the All-inclusive Gospel. By the Lords mercy and Grace we can stand on the shoulders of these dear ones and shout from the highest mountain and declare from the lowest pit that the Lord is the saviour of “all men” especially those that believe (1Timothy 4:10) and His blood is the propitiation concerning our sins, but not ours only but also concerning the sins of the “whole world” (1 John 2:2)

The glorious Truth is this- Christ, who is all in all, is the savour of ALL! As Jesus realized and then showed, Christ is our portion, our supply and our all in all, He becomes true and higher nature given by God that will lead us to be the image and fullness of God. Christ in you is your hope for glory and is being revealed in those called out from this world's darkness to bring God's Light and Kingdom to all who are lost. Only through Christ will we know, love and be the image of our God. All have one Father and have been created in His image and likeness. His plan from the beginning was to express Himself in and through us. He will accomplish this through his Word and only Son, Christ. No religion (including Christianity), no church, no righteous behaviour will ever save us from the make believe darkness of hell that we have created in our carnal minds. Christ is the only Way, the only Truth and the only Life that will free us from this lower world- the place of the dead. Here in hell is where Christ saves us from our deception, our pain and our death.

To many of us over the years have sown into various ministers and ministries, then to wake up one morning to find out the things we’ve held so close to our hearts for so long could possibly be wrong can be a frightening thing.

If you can’t see that Christ has obtained Salvation for everyone and He alone satisfied the Fathers righteousness and that his All-sufficient Grace results in the All-inclusive Gospel then I doubt very much you have a clear revelation of Gods divine Economy.

Please don’t limit yourself to such a small view, a small vision and most of all a small God!

All God's children none left behind!!!

James, I’ve put a link to your article on the evangelical Universalist, Tentmaker discussion forum and the Wisefire Community so hopefully it should result in some good responses and quality fellowship in the Lord.

Grace and Peace
Steve G.
Paul Bacon09/06/2011 00:13
James Knight:

Just a note - I'm on double shift of fundamentalist-watch at the moment, and you're setting off my radar!

Well whoopee doo!

I'm on a double shift of wishy-washy Christian (if you actually believe anything he said) and you are definitely setting off my radar!


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