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Is the Second Coming just far too extreme?

JamesKnightIn his latest column looking at the theme of ‘Objections to Christianity’ Norwich local government officer, author and Proclaimers church member, James Knight, takes a look at the eschatological objection.

 
Eschatology is the branch of theology concerned with ‘last things’ - the second coming, final judgement and so forth.
 
There are several verses in the New Testament which talk very seriously about Christ coming again. He was raised from the dead, He ascended to Heaven and He shall return to judge the world. 
 
Now it seems to me that if any of us are quite happy to think of Him as God, without paying much attention to His second coming, we not taking it all quite as seriously as it should be taken. And I get the feeling that in this contemporary age, men and women are quite embarrassed to talk about such things; after all, do not words like ‘You shall see the Son of Man …coming in the clouds of heaven’ belong in fantasy books? 
 
The grounds for disbelieving such things fall into four categories. I will look at two this week and two more next week.
 
The first reason is that many people fear extremism so much that they cannot force their imagination to go beyond anything that they would not see printed in newspapers or on television. 

I use the word ‘extremism’ because many people feel that something which goes far against the grain of modern existential thinking can be seen as extremism in its fictitious sense. It takes a little too much faith to believe such things. People believe that all this apocalyptic stuff is taking too far, something that started off with good moralistic teaching.
 
When we ignore the apocalyptic teachings and concentrate solely on Christ as a moralist we ignore something very fundamental in His teaching. We are, when we are at our very worst, presuming that our own thoughts are better than those of God Himself. We end up picking and choosing which bits of the Bible we like. And it should be noted that if the authors themselves had done this, it surely would have looked different to what it does now. 
 
There are several verses which, if taken wrongly, could cast doubt over the overall efficacy of the scriptures. Christ asking the Father why He had forsaken Him (Mark 15:34) is one particular instance. Another is Christ’s claim that He did not know the day or the hour when He would return (Mark 13:32). Such verses, some might say, add to the doubt shared by some over the Bible’s validity. People find it hard to reconcile this with the fact that Christ was God and therefore all-knowing. In fact, we find out in John 21:17 that Christ does indeed know all things. So how do we show unbelievers that there is no Biblical errancy?
 
Now of course, it is impossible for any of us to imagine the consciousness of Christ, as He was fully man and fully God, but we do know that He had to endure many of the things that we have to endure. He became scared, tired, and hungry, to name but three - and presumably, as God Incarnate, Christ experienced the perfect harmonising of finite thoughts and infinite thoughts. With this in mind, it is hardly surprising that some people do not understand God as a man. But as long as we do not start to create for ourselves, thoughts of another dimension of time beyond our own, we can understand enough of what needs to be understood. There is not, in our terms, any real concept of any kind of harmonisation of timelessness with temporality. And it should be said that we have no real reason to try to imagine such a concept. 
 
Christ died as a man so that we could share in that dying, and then He defeated death, so we could, through our faith in Him, defeat death also. I do not see why people are so surprised when Christ claimed that He did not understand certain things. If He became a man to endure the limitations that we endure, then we should not be surprised to see some of them recorded in the New Testament. If He knew everything, He would not (in the sense that matters) be like us, and thus, we would find it harder (harder, not impossible) to sympathise fully with Him. 
 
But now we come to the second objection, and this one, unlike the first, is an objection strong enough to put men off Christianity all by itself. It is not congenial to the minds of modern men to think about anything than runs counter to the theory of evolution. 

Some modern atheists believe that we are gradually getting ever-nearer to utopia and that progressive change, in the next few thousand years, will yield the sort of utopianism that man has craved for thousands of years. 
 
And with this in mind, it is easy to see how the sudden and dramatic second coming of Christ is anathema to many people. For they have been taught that the earth will eventually be swallowed up by the sun’s expansion and the universe will gradually degenerate; that man will diminish into non-existence. As biology, evolutionary theory might be correct, but it is not so difficult to see that modern man’s perception of things to come is deeply flawed. And surely, even if we can accept evolutionary theory as accurate, we can easily see that men’s thoughts are tainted by a subliminal belief that something high always supersedes something low; that progression can only really lead us to something better. 
 
GlobeAustraliaMan has always been subsumed by the pressure to invent something progressive, particularly in contemporary times. So we see it is hardly surprising that people choose to disregard the Bible, for the Bible states that the next stage in the evolutionary process has already happened - that man will transcend corporeality, that man will be with God.
 
Also, the doctrine of the second coming does something else that is not congenial to human minds. It teaches us that nobody has any idea when it will occur. In fact, we are as helpless as victims of a burglary - we will be caught by surprise (Matthew 24:43,44; 1 Thessalonians 5:2). It is hardly surprising that men hate this contention, for men have, for many years, loved the notion that they are in control of all earthly events - that they can eventually progress to a stage where they can outwit nature herself. And it could be imagined (although I do not believe it) that, if God does not exist, man could advance technology to such a level that this could be possible. That we might be able to, in the future, travel through galaxies just as postmen travel from street to street, I have little doubt; but all attempts to expunge God from the whole picture are not based on anything rational.
 
As far away in the future as these innovations may be, we are already seeing how men repeatedly succumb to the temptation of trying to remove God from the picture. Man can be in control of his own destiny and to those who do not know that God exists, there can be nothing more alluring. But it is not so. We think it possible because we constantly fail to realise that we do not understand the full picture. We do not know exactly how the story will end. But thanks to Christ, we have at least some idea. 
 
Modern man wants to shape his own destiny, and somehow he thinks that this is more exciting than being a Christian. But one thought has perhaps slipped his mind. Although we know a little bit about how God will end the world, we do not have, in an eternal sense, any real knowledge of what we are going to become when we are with God. As far as mankind goes, we know a miniscule amount, channelled through our own cognition, but we are told that the plot thickens; that we will become like God, that we shall experience timelessness in all its true glory. 
 
We can, at this point, have no concept of anything beyond corporeality. We are characters in a major drama of which we do not really know, and cannot really feel, the true glory of its eternal outcome. We are told that those who stay loyal to God’s cause shall experience such a stupendous transformation and transpiration. And surely, it is easy to see that this concept, if true, is incalculably more exciting that any modern form of existentialism, or any potential conclusions that modern science or philosophy can bring us.  Therefore we would be very foolish to reject the second coming of Christ based upon our biased favouring of modern scientific thinking. There is a place for science, and philosophy, and psychology, and perhaps even many tenets of modern man’s naturalistic thinking - but all thoughts propounded intentionally to will the removal of God will not, in the end, survive very long by themselves.
 
Next week James will continue his thoughts with two finals objections of eschatology. Meanwhile, we welcome your thoughts and comments, below, upon the ideas expressed here, which are intended to stimulate debate. You can contact the author at james.knight@norfolk.gov.uk
 
Feedback:
Dave Burgess03/09/2007 10:48
Is the Second Coming just far too extreme? How can it be when it has already happened?

CXVI. O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." And yet, behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise. Ye have, by reason of your failure, hindered the breath of God from being wafted over you, and have withheld from your souls the sweetness of its fragrance. Ye continue roving with delight in the valley of your corrupt desires. Ye, and all ye possess, shall pass away. Ye shall, most certainly, return to God, and shall be called to account for your doings in the presence of Him Who shall gather together the entire creation...

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 246)
Dave Burgess04/09/2007 10:09
Read Revelation? Then now consider the following.

He saith: "His eyes were as a flame of fire", and "brass-like were His feet", and "out of His mouth goeth a two-edged sword". How could these words be literally interpreted? Were anyone to appear with all these signs, he would assuredly not be human. And how could any soul seek his company? Nay, should he appear in one city, even the inhabitants of the next would flee from him, nor would any soul dare approach him! Yet, shouldst thou reflect upon these statements, thou wouldst find them to be of such surpassing eloquence and clarity as to mark the loftiest heights of utterance and the epitome of wisdom. Methinks it is from them that the suns of eloquence have appeared and the stars of clarity have dawned forth and shone resplendent.

73
Behold, then, the foolish ones of bygone times and those who, in this day, await the advent of such a being! Nor would they ever bear allegiance unto him except that he appear in the aforementioned form. And as such a being will never appear, so too will they never believe. Such indeed is the measure of the understanding of these perverse and ungodly souls! How could those who fail to understand the most evident of the evident and the most manifest of the manifest ever apprehend the abstruse realities of the divine precepts and the essence of the mysteries of His everlasting wisdom?

74
I shall now briefly explain the true meaning of this utterance, that thou mayest discover its hidden mysteries and be of them that perceive. Examine then and judge aright that which We shall reveal unto thee, that haply thou mayest be accounted in the sight of God amongst those who are fair-minded in these matters.

75
Know then that He who uttered these words in the realms of glory meant to describe the  54  attributes of the One Who is to come in such veiled and enigmatic terms as to elude the understanding of the people of error. Now, when He saith: "His eyes were as a flame of fire", He alludeth but to the keenness of sight and acuteness of vision of the Promised One, Who with His eyes burneth away every veil and covering, maketh known the eternal mysteries in the contingent world, and distinguisheth the faces that are obscured with the dust of hell from those that shine with the light of paradise. Were His eyes not made of the blazing fire of God, how could He consume every veil and burn away all that the people possess? How could He behold the signs of God in the Kingdom of His names and in the world of creation? How could He see all things with the all-perceiving eye of God? Thus have we conferred upon Him a penetrating vision in this day. Would that ye believe in the verses of God! For, indeed, what fire is fiercer than this flame that shineth in the Sinai of His eyes, whereby He consumeth all that hath veiled the peoples of the world? Immeasurably exalted shall God remain above all that hath been revealed in His unerring Tablets concerning the mysteries of the beginning and the end until that day when the Crier will cry out, the day whereon we shall all return unto Him.

76
As to the words "brass-like were His feet", by this is meant His constancy upon hearing the call of God that commandeth Him: "Be thou steadfast as thou hast been bidden." He shall so persevere in the Cause of God, and evince such firmness in the path of His might, that even if all the powers of earth and heaven were to deny Him, He would not waver in the proclamation of His Cause, nor flee from His command in the promulgation of His Laws. Nay rather, He will stand as firm as the highest mountains and the loftiest peaks. He will remain immovable in His obedience to God and steadfast in revealing His Cause and proclaiming His Word. No obstacle will hinder Him, nor will the censure of the froward deter Him or the repudiation of the infidels cause Him to waver. All the hatred, the rejection, the iniquity, and the unbelief that He witnesseth serve but to strengthen His love for God, to augment the yearning of His heart, to heighten the exultation of His soul, and to fill His breast with passionate devotion. Hast thou ever seen in this world brass stronger, or blade sharper, or mountain more unyielding than this? He shall verily stand upon His feet to confront all the inhabitants of the earth, and will fear no one, notwithstanding that which, as thou well knowest, the people are wont to commit. Glory be to God, Who hath established Him and called Him forth! Potent is God to do what He pleaseth. He, in truth, is the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.

77
And further He saith: "Out of his mouth goeth a two-edged sword." Know thou that since the sword is an instrument that divideth and cleaveth asunder, and since there proceedeth from the mouth of the Prophets and the Chosen Ones of God that which separateth the believer from the infidel and the lover from the beloved, this term hath been so employed, and apart from this dividing and separating no other meaning is intended. Thus, when He Who is the Primal Point and the eternal Sun desireth, by the leave of God, to gather together all creation, to raise them up from the graves of their own selves, and to divide them one from another, He shall pronounce but one verse from Him, and this verse will distinguish truth from error from this day unto the Day of Resurrection. What sword is sharper than this heavenly sword, what blade  57  more trenchant than this incorruptible steel that severeth every tie and separateth thereby the believer from the infidel, father from son, brother from sister, and lover from beloved? For whoso believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him is a true believer and whoso turneth away is an infidel, and such an irrevocable separation occurreth between them that they will cease to consort and associate with each other in this world. And so it is between father and son, for should the son believe and the father deny, they will be severed and forever dissociated from each other. Nay rather, thou witnesseth how the son slayeth the father and the father the son. Consider in the same light all that We have explained and related unto thee.

(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 56)

Love to all who believe in God.
gary moore (Guest)05/09/2007 16:50
hey dave....seems liike you're seqrching for something and guesse what...the answers here amount the faithful of christian beleivers here. Ask any question you want and someone will answer it for you but Jesus is the real deal.
happy searching mate.
gary
Dave Burgess06/09/2007 11:41
Hi Gary
Thanks for your concern. However I am not searching I have found!
Yes Jesus was a great messenger and His teachings have lead mankind for many years. However if you are a true believer in Jesus you will know that he promised to return. He told His disciples that he would return when the Jews were again free to walk the streets of Jerusalem, when His message had reach the four corners of the earth and when the desolation and destruction spoke of by Daniel had occurred. Then He would return. These entire things occurred in the mid 1800. In 1844 or 1260 if you are a Muslim. The Bab (translates as GATE) declared that a new age was coming. He spent the next six years preparing the way for as He said “The one who God will make manifest”. The Bab was martyred for these teachings in 1850. Not only was the Bab martyred but also many of His followers, many suffering tortured before being martyred. In 1852 Baha’u’llah (translates as GLORY OF GOD) declared that He was the one to bring a new message from God. Indeed he has given much praise to Jesus and both stated “I am the alpha and the omega the first and the last”. To understand and accept this you need to read the tablets of Baha’u’llah. Yes I know the Bible warns of false Prophets. It also states that you can tell them by the fruits they bear. A good tree can bear only good fruits. If you take the time to read the tablets of Baha’u’llah you will find only good in them.

“3. O FRIEND!
In the garden of thy heart plant naught but the rose of love, and from the nightingale of affection and desire loosen not thy hold. Treasure the companionship of the righteous and eschew all fellowship with the ungodly.

(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)”

Love to all Dave.
gary moore (Guest)06/09/2007 13:38
hi dave..
the Bibles also shows that every eye will see and every knee will bow when Jesus returns and all people everywhere will see and know of His return. His return wont be mistaken or missed as its gonna be a massive huge event on a worldwide basis.You havent missed it as it is still to come. Jesus loves you big time. have a read of the good book and see what you think.
all the best
Gary Moore
Dave Burgess06/09/2007 16:37
Hi Gary
We must be careful of thinking that things will happen in a certain way. For example why is it that the Jews have never recognised Jesus? Could it be because Jesus did not arrive as the Old Testament had foretold His coming?
Now the Glory of God has come down from heaven and is there for all to see. His message has already reached around the world to every nation. If you look you will see.

“IV. This is the Day in which God's most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 5)”

Love to all Dave.
Dave Burgess07/09/2007 15:00
The Glory of God is there for every one of us to see when you look past the clouds!

24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)


24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together..
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(King James Bible, Matthew)

Christ said, 'They shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven'.[1] Bahá'u'lláh said, 'When Christ came for the first time He came upon the clouds'.[2] Christ said that He had come from the sky, from Heaven -- that He came forth from God -- while He was born of Mary, His Mother. But when He declared that He had come from Heaven, it is clear that He did not mean the blue firmament but that He spoke of the Heaven of the Kingdom of God, and that from this Heaven He descended upon the clouds. As clouds are obstacles to the shining of the sun, so the clouds of the world of humanity hid from the eyes of men the radiance of the Divinity of Christ.
[1 St Matthew xxiv, 30. St Matthew xvi, 27.]
[2 St John iii, 13.]
Men said, 'He is of Nazareth, born of Mary, we know Him and we know his brethren. What can He mean? What is He saying? That He came forth from God?'

The Body of Christ was born of Mary of Nazareth, but the Spirit was of God. The capacities of His human body were limited but the strength of His spirit was vast, infinite, immeasurable.

Men asked, 'Why does He say He is of God?' If they had understood the reality of Christ, they would have known that the body of His humanity was a cloud that hid His Divinity. The world only saw His human form, and therefore wondered how He could have 'come down from Heaven'.

Bahá'u'lláh said, 'Even as the clouds hide the sun and the sky from our gaze, even so did the humanity of Christ hide from men His real Divine character'.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks)

Consider the Dispensation of Jesus Christ. Behold, how all the learned men of that generation, though eagerly anticipating the coming of the Promised One, have nevertheless denied Him. Both Annas, the most learned among the divines of His day, and Caiaphas, the high priest, denounced Him and pronounced the sentence of His death.

(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)

XLVII. O Jews! If ye be intent on crucifying once again Jesus, the Spirit of God, put Me to death, for He hath once more, in My person, been made manifest unto you. Deal with Me as ye wish, for I have vowed to lay down My life in the path of God. I will fear no one, though the powers of earth and heaven be leagued against Me. Followers of the Gospel! If ye cherish the desire to slay Muhammad, the Apostle of God, seize Me and put an end to My life, for I am He, and My Self is His Self. Do unto Me as ye like, for the deepest longing of Mine heart is to attain the presence of My Best-Beloved in His Kingdom of Glory. Such is the Divine decree, if ye know it. Followers of Muhammad! If it be your wish to riddle with your shafts the breast of Him Who hath caused His Book the Bayan to be sent down unto you, lay hands on Me and persecute Me, for I am His Well-Beloved, the revelation of His own Self, though My name be not His name. I have come in the shadows of the clouds of glory, and am invested by God with invincible sovereignty. He, verily, is the Truth, the Knower of things unseen. I, verily, anticipate from you the treatment ye have accorded unto Him that came before Me. To this all things, verily, witness, if ye be of those who hearken. O people of the Bayan! If ye have resolved to shed the blood of Him Whose coming the Báb hath proclaimed, Whose advent Muhammad hath prophesied, and Whose Revelation Jesus Christ Himself hath announced, behold Me standing, ready and defenseless, before you. Deal with Me after your own desires.

(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)



love to all Dave
John Payne (Guest)20/11/2007 12:28
Funnily enough we have been studyng the scrptures about the second coming in our housegroup. We are not the sort of people to avoid tricky topics but we are really having a battle with the prophesies. In any event we will be ready for the day.

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