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Other religions deny real knowledge of God

JamesKnight2In Part II of his latest column looking at Objections to Christianity Norwich local government officer, author and Proclaimers church member, James Knight, outlines why he thinks among all religions, Christianity is the only right one. 

 

Click here to read Part I... Those who claim that ‘Christ is only one way to God’ are so far off the mark that they do not really know what they are saying. The love that God has for us is one of giving. The Father gives everything He is to the Son; the Son gives Himself back to the Father and gives Himself to us. In doing so He offers us up to the Father - and the love we give to Christ is given by Him back to the Father. But the person offering the love cannot be imbued with an ineffable sense of the divine unless he or she recognises His becoming man and dying for us on the cross. 
 
Therefore it goes without saying that this can only happen to individuals who love Christ - and individuals can only love Christ if they take on His dying for us. Your love for God must be one that both needs Him and appreciates Him, not one that just appreciates His being. Christ said that He is the only way to the Father and it is for this reason. Our imitation of God in this life - I mean the one that is distinct from any likeness which He has impressed upon the world - must be an imitation of God incarnate; not just of the cross, but of His teaching methods and His pure will to obey the Father. This is what we mean when we say that the divine is fully operational in each of us who is able to appreciate our God living under human conditions. He humbled Himself and became man and that is the image in which Christ confers upon us every opportunity to share in the divine love. 
 
But there is an interesting paradox - on the one hand we were born to share in this - it has been in our hearts from the very beginning - but on the other hand we are creatures who seek justice, therefore any claim that Christianity is the one and only true religion must occasionally invoke in us some feelings of resistance. In this modern world of democratic feeling, utilitarianism, and political and individual correctness, claims of exclusiveness do not always sit well with us, and I think that this naturally causes the resistance.
 
He wants us to grow with Him. It is not very easy to understand His love if we have to resort to comparing it to human love. His love is one that wants to give us gifts for our betterment. He has no wish for reciprocity in the human sense. God created us, not out of necessity, but out of grace - this is not abrasive scholastic conjecture, it is absolutely necessary if we are to fully understand His love and grace. 
 
I firmly believe that all He has made thus far is merely a drop in the ocean compared with what is to be made in the future. Perhaps the analogy of an ocean is misleading, for I do not think that we can really think of size when we think abut what is to come - it will be something transcendent of time and shape. But at the moment, He is gradually perfecting His creatures, first into loving Him, and secondly, into being more like His Son. God already foresaw, or perhaps more accurately ‘forefelt’ every bit of pain that Christ endured even before creating us. That is the true blueprint of what love is - no other religion comes close; no earthly way of life is in the same stratosphere. 
 
I think the pantheistic religions have got it wrong. God created things that were not part of Himself, so that they could learn to love Him at the same time as drawing closer to that which is presently distinct from Him. The divine love is begotten though the Son so that God can create for us a real pleasure in the distinction between creature and Creator. The love can be reciprocated in a way that transcends anything pantheistic. Even before the world was created, God had humbled Himself with a plan, so that man could know Him though Christ. From the very beginning of creation, we were made to relinquish and to surrender; but we were made in a way that our surrender would be, not only a pleasure, but an epiphany - a revelation - a pathway to paradise. By relinquishing and surrendering we become more ourselves, we become more like God. We cannot escape them anywhere we look. 
 
No other religion can possibly reveal to us anything comparable to that which shows us God in human flesh. All other religions deny this, and in the process each adherent denies himself any real knowledge of God. They do not even exist for the sake of grace or love; for grace Himself and love Himself created us so that He could love us and show us grace. Denial of this leaves us with nothing more than a polysyllabic variant of atheism. To deny this is to deny God. 
 
GodTouchesManJudaism, Islam and most of the cults believe that no man has seen God. The pantheistic religions believe that God is all. Both miss the point. The whole point of creation is that He was not content to be unreachable - He wants to be reached through His Son. And equally, He does not want to be all - He wants to be a part of all; that is, He wants a relationship which will bring about the gradual perfecting of your soul. And with a little thought, it is much more being in all than it is just being all. It is just that when you take away the precept of ‘God as a man’ away from your religion, you are left with little more than a microcosmic development of atheism. 
 
To not recognise God as a man is to not recognise the big picture of God at all. In the incarnation, God the Son takes the body and human soul of Christ, and, through that, the whole environment of nature, the entire creaturely predicament, into His own being. Therefore restriction, locality, hesitancy, frustration, agony and death are known by God from within. The glorious divine light walks the earth and the darkness of humanity is received into the heart of God. And that is why it is only possible to know the Father through Christ (John 14:6).

Christianity is not all rosy - nothing can be really. But even those moments when the Christian faith does not seem so rosy are for our own betterment. Even those times when I wish it were not true, those times I want to get away from everything that reminds me of Him - they are the times which remind me how real it all is. 
 
If I never become disillusioned, then I should suspect that all the other times I delight in it were simply wish-fulfilments. That, by the way, explains the feebleness of all those diluted versions of Christianity (Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, to name but two) which expunge all the dark introspective elements and try to establish a religion of pure and unadulterated comfort and relief. No real belief in the diluted versions can achieve anything more than an illusory existence. Spellbound as we are, we know that objective reality consists, not of things which are always agreeable, but of undulating levels of agreeableness and sinuous twists and turns, leading us as much into dark alleys as sunny valleys. 
 
It is the very nature of the real that it should have moments when everything that is held dear to us seems as fragile as a glass roof. We are at our best when we ‘cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt’ - not when we obstinately presume that everything we have been told must be right because of trans-generational conveyance by family elders. God created things that were not part of Himself, so that they could learn to love Him at the same time as drawing closer that which is presently distinct from Him.
 
That is not to say that all those who follow other religions are completely without hope. I believe that God’s grace will extend a lot further than we can imagine. We are told that He can sympathise with us at every moment. If you are stuck in a country where your religion has been indoctrinated; installed into you by oppression - or if bad influences have, thus far, been too powerful for you to resist, you can be sure that He knows about it. He is quite aware of how hard it has been for you. He knows that your earthly desires have been strangled by external influences which bring about a reality that is, in those quiet times, contrary to that which really should have been yours from the beginning. He knows that the hunger which He set in your heart has been stifled by the Bad One. He knows the real flexibility of those beliefs which have been installed by those who never saw fit to question their faith. 
 
In believing that God is unreachable, man is stimulating only part of his true earthly desire. He has, all along, wanted to be like God - for that is what Christ is offering, that through Him we can (eventually) be like God. In rejecting this, man has taken a part of what Christ is offering and tried to expedite the process; that is, he has made himself a god of his own life on earth by following his own path. But this can only lead to despair. 
 
God became man so that He could make us aware that He is the way and the truth and the life. It is only through Him that we can find peace; it is only through Him that we can understand ourselves; and, indeed, it is only through Him that we fully understand what divine love is. Dismissing other religions brings me no personal enjoyment - but it has to be admitted that anything which impedes all the things I have just described must be, in some way, detrimental to man’s true cause. Anything that holds a man back from truly knowing God must be a solecism against the soul’s real freedom to breathe. All the evidence certainly suggests this. But there is hope for everyone; for God can eradicate all the things that are holding us back. All those who search earnestly, He can make them aware that our true earthly desires are capable of providing in abundance a real and genuine love and appreciation for His Son - thus giving hope to anyone who is prepared to search for the truth.
 
We welcome your thoughts and comments, below, upon the ideas expressed here, which are intended to stimulate debate. You can contact the author at james.knight@norfolk.gov.uk

 

 

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Dave Burgess09/10/2007 21:23
Dear James
Your direct response is unexpected but most welcome. Taking things out context how many times that is done with the Bible when people like your self read and quote one line from a chapter. In fact I would even go as far as to say that the Bible is the most miss quoted book ever published. I have certainly picked parts from your article which I believe are the significant lines. You say that I may not be reading it as you have meant it to be, this can be said of all written work.

You claim to be knowledgeable on all religions as you claim to have read there books! I find this difficult to believe. If you have read them then you certainly have failed to understand them. How can I make such a claim? Well simply because you do not know how to spell Qur’án spelling it as you have just which version did you read and are you sure it was an accurate translation? More evidence of your failure to understand these books is clear when you state that they are totally different. Had you taken the time to study them thoroughly you would have found many similarities. The only differences that exist are those brought about by the different culture of the peoples that they were given to. All the religions teach of one God. Now I know you have just jumped up claiming that the Hindus have many Gods. But this is not true Hindus acknowledge one God but see Him with many attributes. Then what about reincarnation? Well dose this really differ from being bourn again in the next world of God. No it is the way that it has been interpreted that is different. Your failed to understand them because you have made up your mind on the outcome before you start reading them.
Man creating religions! True some men claim to be what they are not and start religions that are not based on Gods teachings one of these is currently living in India and is called the “Diabrama” ok I know I have most probably spelt that wrong but have no idea of the correct spelling, then we have the Scientologist following the books of a science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard. So I am very aware that what may be called false religions do exist. However I am only interested in the religions of God. You claim that Jesus was special and yes I agree fully He was very special and so are all of Gods manifestations. You seem to believe that Jesus is the only one but what about those that came before Jesus and that he acknowledged? There is as I have stated before only one true religion and that is the religion of God. So why do I say you should become a Bahá’í well as time passes God sends a new manifestation. Man in his ignorance rejects these new manifestation as false. Even Jesus is claimed to be false by the Jews! They are still waiting for Him. So we have the situation caused completely by man that with each new manifestation we have a new religion were we should just be strengthening the old one. So why should you now become a Bahá’í because you would then be true to God and recognised that Jesus has returned. You would not be turning your back on Jesus quite the opposite your faith and love of him would be stronger. You would see the truth that is within all the Holy Books not just the Bible. As religions age man corrupts them that has happened in the Christian church as you are well aware with all the different sects that are claiming to be right and the others wrong! Strange as they are all reading from the same book! So to overcome this corruption God in His wisdom sends us new manifestation to keep us on the right pathway. I would say nothing against Jesus and never will. Jesus taught love, forgiveness, peace, chastity, faith, it is just unfortunate that these teachings are not followed by all even within the church.
You talk of others having blind faith in other religions I would say it is you that has blind faith. You see I do not have a religious background. This is because I have always seen so much contradiction in Christianity. Yes I was raised as a Christian but could never accept that any true religion would support wars let alone start them. And why do certain stories in the Bible change depending on which disciple they came from? Well the truth here is quite simple because they were not written by the disciples but by the monks many years later and each giving his own twist to the verses. And remember these verses had been passed down verbally before being written. It was only when I found the Bahá’í Faith that I found the truth of Gods words. I was then able to see the truth in the Bible more clearly. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Jesus has returned in Baha’u’llah. The truth of this is found throughout the Bahá’í writings.
As you state Christianity is the incontrovertible truth. Well two thousand years ago it was I might even go as far as saying the Bible is incontrovertible truth. However we now have a new truth and that is the words of Baha’u’llah. The only manifestation from God who has either directly written the verses or has dictated them to a scribe. No other religion has verses that have come so directly from God.
In the same way that Jesus was God then so was Baha’u’llah but I have already explained this question in the first part of your chapter.
Mathew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(King James Bible, Acts)
3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
(King James Bible, 2 Corinthians)
You then say the Bible teaches that our Heavenly Father came down in human flesh. Sorry it dose not. In Zechariah 2:10 God says that He is coming to live amongst us. It says nothing about Him being flesh as I have said before the sprit of God was within Jesus hence he was living amongst us. But not in the flesh as you make out.

Knowledge of God can only come through His own revelation of Himself, which He has done through the Bible, and through Jesus Christ. And through Mosses and through Abraham and through Muhammad and through the Bab and through Baha’u’llah. In fact all the manifestations since the time of Adam the first recorded.
Your way James is for man to continue in disagreement and dissention with each claiming to be the only right way when the truth is that all religions are the right way the only thing we need to do is to recognise that they all came from God. All follow His teachings. When you accept that then you will be a Bahá’í even if you do not call your self one. The Bahá’í Faith teach love tolerance equality unity peace. All the things that Jesus would accept as the right way. Because these teachings have come from God.

I accept that your message is sent with love and grace.

Mine is sent with the wish to see peace on earth.

I will pray for the day that all the peoples of this world come together in praise of God in perfect unity.

Love to all Dave
Dave Burgess10/10/2007 08:49
Good morning James as you like reading try the following: -

THE HIDDEN WORDS OF BAHÁ'U'LLÁH (Arabic only)
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words) It is in English.

THE HIDDEN WORDS OF BAHÁ'U'LLÁH (Persian only)
(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words) This is also in English.

GLEANINGS FROM THE WRITINGS OF BAHÁ'U'LLÁH
Translated by Shoghi Effendi
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)

Gems of Divine Mysteries
Javáhiru'l-Asrár
Bahá'u'lláh
(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries)

Just a small sample of the many books available for you to study. Please read them with an open mind not a closed one. If your mind is closed you will not find there true meanings.

Love to all Dave.
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:49
Dave,

I’ve had to split this into several parts because each box has a limited on the number of words it can contain.

There is, I would say, one line that best sums up the fragility of your contention. You say that you moved away from Christianity because of bad attitudes and bad things done in its name. How, then, can you have any knowledge of what is true? If you are prepared to abandon your belief in Christianity simply because of the behaviour attributed to some of its adherents, then it does not say much of your conviction or fervency to begin with.
How do you ever hope to know about ultimate truths if your analysis of them is tainted by such capriciousness? You would not, I presume, think very highly of a man’s analysis if he were to abandon his work ethic because of a few bad employees; or a man who abandoned a sport he loved because of the minority of hooliganism; or a man who renounced driving because of the few incidents of road rage; or, even closer to the point, a man who gave up on his own marriage because of bad marriages which he had witnesses around him. The same principle applies to the Christian faith.
Christ does not ask that we follow Him based upon our faith in human beings; He asks that we follow Him because of our faith in Him. We do not judge the Christian faith by what others do; we judge it (or should judge it) by what Christ did on earth and continues to do inside us. By all means switch around from faith to faith until you find one where its adherents’ sensibilities are consonant with your own, but it is not a very sound basis for investigating what is true. Some of the most prominent members of the National Front did just that, as indeed did some of the members of extreme Communist groups in the Soviet Union and in much of Eastern Europe and Western Asia, but I’m sure that you would not espouse such activities, or, indeed, such unpropitious results.
No, when it comes to our Creator, we must commit to what is true, not to what our personal feelings and emotions tell us; for they will very often mislead us if reason is not stimulating them. Before I am misunderstood, I am not saying that we can ‘reason’ our way to knowing God - no, that will only come with self-surrender; that is, we find God through the heart. No, reason is the tool used to understand the self, and its creaturely position and creaturely needs, and indeed, the tool which will help us to understand the true needs of the heart.
You also seem to claim that Christ has already returned. Why you should think this way, I have no idea. Christ will come again, all right; but this time it will be Christ in all His glory. He will judge the world - and every knee will bow before Him. We will all know about it when He returns. The New Testament speaks a lot about His return; thus it categorically states that it will not be a quiet, surreptitious, return, it will be a return to which all of us be witnesses.
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:51
There have been many new religions formed after Christ’s death, each claming to have a fresh or continued word from God, but this directly contradicts scripture. The Bible tells us that Jesus dying on the cross has completed our salvation; therefore, no more words need to be written: because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Hebrews 10:14
When Christ said ‘it is finished’ He meant exactly that - He has completed everything that is necessary for our salvation.

Jesus, in dying for us on the cross, paid the ransom for our sin. If you look at Psalm 49:7 - the Bible asserts that - No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for Him.
Thus it is quite clear that Christ was not a mere man, but was fully man and fully God. He could pay the ransom because He was God.
All divine revelation is the proclamation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, and the Bible informs us of who and what He is, the incarnation of God, designed in the eternal counsels to be the mediator between God and His creation.
The Bible states that Christ is the creator of all things - For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Colossians 1:16.

People of other faiths often pull verses out of the Bible which they claim as evidence that Jesus cannot be equal to God, but they are invariably misunderstanding the real meaning of the texts.
Let’s have a look at some of them:
Jesus says,
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 14:28
This does not mean that Jesus is not equal to the Father, it means that on earth, Jesus has taken His voluntary subordinate role. Greater refers to His position. God the Father is greater while Jesus is on earth. With these words, Jesus was displaying His true nature to His disciples. In John’s gospel, we find out that Jesus is all knowing, and I am sure you would agree that only God is all-knowing:
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you". John 21:17

Another verse often pulled out to suggest that Christ is not equal to God is this one:

Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father." Matthew 20:23

Again, this is Jesus in His subordinate role. In Matthew 28, Jesus says that He did not come to be saved, He came to die. God came down to die for us and bridge the gap between Himself and creation. Nobody else but God could have done that.

Another verse often pulled out is this one, which might explain why you think that Jesus merely has some of the spirit of God:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour." Luke 4:18-19

This does not in any way allude to Jesus not being God. Notice Jesus says this because He is referring to the baptism. If we look closely, it is a fulfilment of the prophecy in Isaiah:

"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:51
Here is another verse often cited to back up their claims:

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."
Luke 22:42

The cup they are referring to is the cup of suffering, as prophesied in Isaiah:

This is what your Sovereign LORD says, your God, who defends his people: "See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that made you stagger; from that cup, the goblet of my wrath, you will never drink again. Isaiah 51:22

It is another illustration that the suffering Jesus endured was of the most physical and mental pain. When Jesus says “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies”, it is not only a patent illustration of the sacrifice, but it would be blasphemous for anyone other than God to say those words. As Christians we are not saying that Jesus is the same as God. Jesus as God made man has to, by definition, be different from God the Father. It tells us that his incarnation is so real that He bore many of the limitations that human beings have. Jesus grew intellectually and physically (Luke 2:52), He wept (John 11:35), He hungered for food (Matthew 4:2) and He needed sleep (Matthew 8:24). So Jesus possessed all the attributes of humanity. By becoming a human He emptied Himself of the Heavenly glory of His divinity and was veiled in the flesh. Jesus had to live by faith and in watchfulness because He did not know the hour of final judgement. If Jesus had not have accepted the limitations of human frailty, He would not have stood in our shoes and could not have taken His place on the cross. What He did not assume, He cannot redeem. God made Himself just like us, because of His love for us:

For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. John 3:16-17

You mentioned the verse which refers to God as the Alpha and the Omega. But you miss the point that it is actually making - it is a direct claim of Christ’s divinity. Alpha and Omega, as I am sure you know, are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. God is saying I am the A-Z, the beginning and end, the first and last:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

But notice in Revelation 22, Jesus says the same thing about Himself; a statement which would be blasphemous were He not equal to God:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”. Revelation 22:13
There can only be one beginning and one end. It is God in Revelation chapter 1 and Jesus in chapter 22.

People of other faiths do not believe grace is enough to attain salvation. They say that works are the integral part. They often cite this verse:

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? James 2:20

But this verse does not mean that you have got to work your way to heaven. Faith, which is only in the mind, is not yet complete. It becomes complete when it culminates in a decision of the will and is carried out in action, and joined to obedience to Christ. The scripture is observing that faith and deeds are inextricably linked. Faith is a cerebral position, where you believe that Jesus died for our sins, but the faith is not complete until it results in decision of the will to give your life to Jesus. Faith is not mere belief it is commitment to Christ. These two verses from Romans and Ephesians clearly tell us that you cannot work your way to heaven:

And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Romans 11:6

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Christ dying for our sins is something for which we can never repay God. We all have to concede that we do not deserve a place in Heaven, and that we must accept the gift from the grace of God and work hard to be more like Christ in everything we do. Those who claim that Jesus is not God completely overlook the great thing God has done for us. No one other than God could die on the cross for the sins of mankind, for only the death of God Himself on the cross could bridge the gap between our sin and the glory of God. These verses below are good ones to turn to:

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 3:23-24

For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise.
Galatians 3:18

We cannot lose our salvation, but that equally means we cannot enhance our position. It is given to us, and is a promise from God. If it is already promised, we cannot work towards it. Christianity teaches that good works will follow those who are saved:

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10

The verse below clearly states that the words in the Bible leave us “thoroughly equipped” for “every good work”. There is no need for any other religious texts.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:53
If you are still not convinced that Christ claims He is equal to God, there are many verses in which He claims the same for Himself which our Heavenly Father claims about Himself in the Old Testament. Christ would never be so bold as to claim these things for Himself unless He is God.
In Isaiah, God says:

Say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
Isaiah 35:4-6

If we look at the book of Matthew, Jesus says this is His own mission:

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. Matthew 11:5.

In the New Testament it says about Jesus:

The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken," and, as another scripture says, "They will look on the one they have pierced." John 19:35-37

That verse fulfils God’s prophecy in Zechariah:

And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. Zechariah 12:10

There are many other verses in the Bible that tell us that Jesus is God. In Isaiah, God says:

By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. Isaiah 45:23

Compare this to Philippians and you will see that here it is Jesus’ name that every knee should bow:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

Isaiah 8 says this about God the Father:

The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread, and he will be a sanctuary; but for both houses of Israel he will be a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare. Isaiah 8:13-14

In the New Testament, Peter says the same thing about Jesus:

"A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message-- which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8

In Jeremiah, God the Father says:

I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds. Jeremiah 17:10

In Revelation, Jesus says the same about Himself:

All the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Revelation 2:23.

Look at what Jesus says in this verse:

Whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. John 4:14

Jesus forgave people their sins and, more importantly, allowed Himself to be worshipped - something only God can do.
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:54
Probably the most direct claim that Jesus is God is found here in Exodus and John:

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you. Exodus 3:13-14

Now compare that to what Jesus says in John’s gospel:

Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. John 8:54-59

Three more claims from Jesus in John’s gospel that He is HIM.

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies. John 11:25

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6

Do not you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:10-14.

In Hebrews, God the Father addresses the Son as God:

But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the sceptre of your kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

In the verse below we see that only through Jesus can we have salvation.

It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is "'the stone you builders rejected, which has become the capstone.' Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12

The Bible lays all the claims of truth, despite futile alternatives:

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-- bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 2 Peter 2:1-3.

Some people think that there are no verses in the Bible which show that the Holy Spirit is equal to God - but there are plenty. We find in Hebrews 3 that the Holy Spirit is referred to as God:

So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did. Hebrews 3:7-9

Notice that these are also God’s words in Psalm 95: 7-11, so it is evident that the Holy Spirit is claiming the same as that which God claims:

For he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care. Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah, as you did that day at Massah in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried me, though they had seen what I did. For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, "They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways." So I declared on oath in my anger, "They shall never enter my rest." Psalm 95:7-11
James Knight (Guest)10/10/2007 09:54
Similarly, what the Holy Spirit says in Hebrews 10:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Hebrews 10:15-16.

God the Father says in Jeremiah 31:

"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbour, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." Jeremiah 31:33-34

Acts 5 tells us that the Holy Spirit is God. If you lie to the Holy Spirit you lie to God:

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Did not it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was not the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." Acts 5:3-4

The Holy Spirit is all powerful, just like God, as we see in Luke’s gospel:

The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. For nothing is impossible with God." Luke 1:35-37

Just like God, the Holy Spirit is eternal:

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:14

And all knowing:

But God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:10-11.

So Mr. Burgess, we see quite clearly that The Bible claims that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons of one God. This is where Christianity stands alone. This verse from Galatians is a fantastic verse because it isolates the uniqueness of Christianity:

Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" Galatians 2:16-21


I shall, of course, continue to pray for you.

Best wishes,

James
Dave Burgess10/10/2007 13:01
James
You even try to alter what I have said just as you do with the Bible. It should be clear that I have every Faith in Jesus but alas not in the Christian church. I have very strong Faith in God but none in the Christian church. When the faults that exist are from the top down then it is time to end it! When the leading clergy are active in starting wars then it is time to end it. When they do not follow the teachings of God then it is time to end it. God know that man will corrupt His teachings so he sends us new prophets to uphold them. Unfortunately the divines of each religion will not let go of the people or there power over them so we then have conflict. The way you look at the Islamic Faith and the Bahá’í Faith is the same way that the Jews look at Christianity. They think you are following a false prophet. Why you find this so difficult to see I do not know. Only when you come to recognise that God is watching over us at all times and sends these prophets to help and guide us when we are going wrong. Then you will see the truth. The teachings of Jesus and the Bible are good. It is man that is bad.
Would you have called for an army to attack the Muslims as there faith spread into southern Europe?
I have every faith in God and yes Christ has returned conceder the following from your own Bible:

In the eighth chapter of the book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said:
"Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?"
Then he answered (v. 14):
"Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"; (v. 17) "But he said unto me…. At the time of the end shall be the vision."
That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? Meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered,
"Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
Briefly, the purported of this passage is that he appoints two thousand and three hundred years, for the text of the Bible each day is a year. Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Bab there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years. That is to say the fulfilment of the vision of Daniel took place in the year a.d.1844, and this is the year of the Bab's manifestation according to the actual text of the Book of Daniel.

In Matthew, chapter 24 verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse;
"As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v15):
"When ye therefore shall seethe adomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the profit stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)."
In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of.
Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Bab is spoken of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.

Unfortunately I can not continue to read the rest of your latest entries at this time as I have just received a large delivery that requires my attention. But I will return.

Love to all Dave.
Dave Burgess10/10/2007 16:14
James
If the death of Jesus was to pay for mans sins and release man from sin then why are we still sinners? Sorry mate that argument is flawed.
Yes the Bible tells of Jesus and His return: -
25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
But like many others you do not go this far into this chapter. You all stop at the bit about false prophets. And then imagine that you will actually see the Son of Man coming through the sky!!!!!!!!
Even here you overlook the part about coming back: -
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 14:28
It is not for us to judge the relationship between God and His prophets. Nor should we exalt one prophet above another all are equal in the eyes of God that we are told in the Bahá’í writings.
Dear James you try to drown me in the ocean of your words by pulling out little quotes from the Bible. Just the thing that you have complained I have done to your text and misquoted it now you do exactly that same thing. We could argue for ever more about the true meaning of complete verses from the Bible. In fact I believe that some people do devote them selves to this argument you may well be one of them! However this sort or argument will never advance man. Claiming your religion is the only right and true religion will never advance man. Anyone pulling small quotes from the Holy books will not advance man. I have read the Bible and my interpretation is very different from yours and I do not think that we will ever agree. I believe that you see too much of what you want to see rather than the true meaning of the text of that Holy book. You seem to alter bits that suit your own interpretation then expect every one to agree with you. I may not be able to persuade you to become a Bahá’í. However before you completely dismiss Baha’u’llah I would urge you to read His Holy Books.

You say you will pray for me that is very kind of you. However I think you would do well to pray for yourself. I have no doubts that I am on the right path to God I may not be the best example of a religious person but I do try my best.

I have not jumped from religion to religion as you seem to infer. As a Christian I was quite happy to believe in God and Jesus and leave the church to go its own way breaking the laws of God and splitting into endless sects. But in my longing to see an end to religious conflict I started building a web page with many links to other religions. A Jehovah Witness heard of this and brought a book for me to read “The Search for God” an interesting book that I will not go into its content here. While reading that book I first learnt of the Bahá’í Faith. This book stated that the Baha’is are trying to unite the religions of the world and they seemed to think this was wrong. With my way of thinking that was just what we should be doing. So I set of to learn more about the Bahá’í Faith. Did a little reading on there origins. Then decided to meet with them to see what they were like as people, were they true to the ideals and teachings of the Faith. I then did much more reading this time of the early history of the faith. I learnt about the martyrdom of the Bab. The forty year of imprisonment of Baha’u’llah and His family. Not forgetting the thousands that were tortured and put to death just for teaching the words of God. You say Jesus suffered for us, so did the Bab and Baha’u’llah and there followers. The final part was to read some of the actual words of Baha’u’llah. This process was spread over a two year period at the end of which I knew that the Bahá’í faith was a true religion of God for our time and that Jesus had returned as predicted. I was now with people that not only read the words of God but are doing there very best to see that His teachings are carried out here on earth.

Love to all Dave
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