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| | xxx (Guest) | 28/12/2008, 16:00 | | I consider myself to be on the left of the picture!!!
| | | a voice (Guest) | 28/12/2008, 20:49 | | Temple layout .vs, temple building material !
Very good Timothy, your finally getting there
The Soul under the Spirit’s Control
Spirit, soul, and body—to the ancient Jewish temple of God’s habitation. God dwells in the Holy of Holies. A curtain separates it from the Holy Place. This curtain seems to enclose God’s glory and presence within the Holy of Holies, barring His glory from the Holy Place. Men of that time therefore can only know the things outside the curtain in the Holy Place. Apart from faith they in their outward life cannot sense the presence of God.
This curtain, however, only exists temporarily. At the appointed hour, when the flesh of our Lord Jesus (which is the reality of the curtain, Heb. 10.20) was crucified on the cross, the curtain was rent from top to bottom. What separated the Holiest and the Holy Place was removed. God’s aim was not to dwell permanently just in the Holy of Holies. Quite the contrary. He desired to extend His presence to the Holy Place too. He was merely waiting for the cross to complete its work, for it is the cross alone which can rend the curtain and permit God’s glory to shine out from the Holiest Place.
God today would have His own enjoy such a temple experience in their spirit and soul: if only the cross is allowed to perfect its work in them. As they ungrudgingly obey the Holy Spirit the communion between the Holy and the Holiest grows deeper day by day until they experience a great change. It is the cross which effects the rending of the curtain; that is, the cross so functions in the life of the believer that he has a rent-curtain experience between his spirit and soul. His natural life renounces its independence and waits upon the spirit life for direction and supply.
The curtain was torn in two, “from top to bottom” (Mark 15.38). This has to be God’s doing, not man’s. When the work of the cross is finished God tears the curtain. This cannot be achieved either by our labors or by our strength, not even by our entreaty. The moment the cross accomplishes its task at that moment is the curtain rent. Let us therefore renew our consecration and offer ourselves to God without reservation. Let us be willing to have our soul life committed to death in order that the Lord Who dwells in the Holiest may finish His work. If he observes that the cross has wrought thoroughly enough in us the Lord shall indeed integrate the Holiest and the Holy within us just as He centuries ago rent the curtain by His might so that His Holy Spirit might flow out from His glorious body.
Thus shall the glory in the shelter of the Most High overwhelm our daily sensuous life. All our walk and work in the Holy Place shall be sanctified in the glory of the Holiest. Like our spirit is, so shall our soul too be indwelt and regulated by the Holy Spirit of God. Our mind, emotion and will shall be filled by Him. What we have maintained by faith in the spirit we now also know and experience in the soul, nothing lacking and nothing lost. What a blessed life is this! “And the glory of the Lord filled the temple. And the priests could not enter the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord filled the Lord’s house” (2 Chron. 7.1-2). However lovely our activities of priestly service may have seemed in the Holy Place, they all shall cease in the glorious light of God. Henceforth His glory governs everything. No more is animal activity adored.
This brings us to the other, and equally significant, aspect of the dividing of spirit and soul. Insofar as the soul’s influence and control of the spirit is concerned, the work of the cross is to effect the division of the two; but insofar as the spirit’s filling and reigning is concerned, the cross works towards the surrender of the soul’s independence so that it may be reconciled completely to the spirit. Believers should seek to experience oneness of spirit and soul. Were we to allow the cross and the Holy Spirit to operate thoroughly in us we would discover that what the soul has relinquished is scarcely a fraction of what it ultimately gains: the dead has now come into fruition, the lost is now kept for eternal life. When our soul is brought under the reins of the spirit it undergoes an immense change. Beforehand it seems to be useless and lost to God because it is employed for self and often moves independently; afterwards God gains our soul, though to man it may appear to be crushed. We become as “those who have faith and keep their souls” (Heb. 10.39). This is much more profound than what we commonly term “saved,” because it points especially to life. Since we have learned not to walk by sensation and sight, we are now able to save our life by faith into serving and glorifying God. “Receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls” (James 1.21). As God’s Word is implanted we receive its new nature into us and are thus enabled to bear fruit. We obtain the life of the Word from the Word of life. Although the organs of the soul still remain, these organs no longer function through its power; rather, they operate by the power of God’s Word. This is “the salvation of your souls” (1 Peter 1.9).
Human nerves are rather sensitive and are easily stirred by outside stimuli. Words, manners, environments and feelings greatly affect us. Our mind engages in so many thoughts, plans and imaginations that it is a world of confusion. Our will is agitated to perform many acts according to our sundry delights. None of the organs of our soul can bring us into peace. Singly or collectively, they disturb, they confuse, they shift us around. But when our soul is in the spirit’s hand we can be released from such disturbances. The Lord Jesus implores us: “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls” (Matt. 11.29). If we are favorably inclined to yield to the Lord, to take up His yoke, and to follow Him, our soul shall not be aroused inordinately. If we learn of Him by seeing how He, when despised by men, continued to follow God’s will and not His Own, our soul shall return to tranquillity. The reason for our hurt feelings lies in the fact that we are not amenable to being treated as our Lord was and are loathe to submit ourselves to the will and ordering of God. Were we to deliver our natural energies to death and capitulate entirely to the Lord, our soul, though so nervously sensitive, would rest in the Lord and not misunderstand Him.
| | | a voice (Guest) | 28/12/2008, 21:04 | | The soul which comes under the Holy Spirit’s authority is a restful one. Once we busily planned, today we calmly trust the Lord. Once we were flushed with anxieties, today we are like a child quieted at its mother’s breast. Once we entertained many thoughts and ambitions, today we consider God’s will best and rest ourselves in Him. In obeying the Lord wholly, we rejoice in heart fully. With complete consecration comes perfect peace. “As bondmen of Christ doing the will of God from the soul” (Eph. 6.6 Darby). We do not rely upon the soul to execute God’s will, rather we perform His will from the soul, that is, with our whole heart. The soul which once rebelled against God’s desire is now perfectly committed to Him through the operation of the cross. That which carried out its own will, or tried to do God’s will by its own idea, is now of one heart with God in all things.
A soul under the rule of the Holy Spirit never worries for itself. “Do not be anxious about your life (original, soul)” (Matt. 6.25). We now seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness because we believe God will supply our daily need. Once touched by the cross through the Holy Spirit, the soul no longer is able to be anxious about itself. While self-consciousness is the soul’s prime expression, yet believers actually lose their self in God; hence they can trust God utterly. Every work of the soul, including self-love, self-seeking and self-pride, have been so eliminated that believers are no longer self-centered.
Because the cross has done its task we do not busily plan any more for ourselves. Instead of suffering anxiety we can restfully seek God’s kingdom and righteousness. We know if we care for God’s cares that God will take care of our cares. Once we wondered at miracles, now we live by the God of miracles and know in experience how God provides every need. This all flows naturally since God’s power is backing us. The cares of this life emerge as very small items indeed along our daily path.
“Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator” (1 Peter 4.19). Many people know God as the Creator but not as Father; believers, though, should experience Him not only as Father but also as Creator. As the latter God reveals to us His power. By this we will understand and acknowledge that the whole universe is in fact in His hand. Formerly it was hard for us to believe the idea that things in the world could not move against His will; but now we know that every element in the universe—be it human, natural, or supernatural—is under His careful scrutiny and clever ordering. We now acknowledge that all things come to us either through His order or by His permission. A soul governed by the Holy Spirit is a trusting one.
Our soul ought to desire the Lord as well as to trust Him. “My soul clings to thee” (Ps. 63.8). No more do we dare be independent of God nor do we dare serve the Lord according to the idea of the soul. Rather, we today follow Him with fear and trembling and trail after Him closely. Our soul genuinely clings to the Lord. No more is there independent action, but instead a full surrender to Him. And this is not by compulsion; we do it gladly. What we henceforth hate is our life; what we wholly love is the Lord.
Such persons cannot but utter the cry of Mary: “My soul magnifies the Lord” (Luke 1.46). No longer is there self-importance, either in public or in private. These believers recognize and admit their incompetency and only wish to exalt the Lord with humbleness of heart. They will not steal the Lord’s glory any further but magnify Him in their souls. For if the Lord is not magnified in the soul, nowhere else is He magnified either.
Only such as these count not their life (original, soul) of any value (Acts 20.24) and can lay down their lives (original, souls) for the brethren (1 John 3.16). Unless self-love is abandoned the believer shall forever shrink back when called actually to take up the cross for Christ. He who lives a martyr’s life and is willing to nail his self to the cross is able as well to die a martyr’s death if ever the need should arise. He can lay down his life for his brother if occasion demands it because in ordinary days he has denied himself continuously and has not sought his own right or comfort but has poured out his soul for the brethren. True love towards the Lord and the brethren arises out of no love for self. He “loved me” and “gave Himself for me” (Gal. 2.20). Love flows from the denial of the self life. Blood-shedding is the source of blessing.
Such a life is in truth one of prosperity, as is written: “thy soul prospers” (3 John 2 Darby). This prosperity originates not with what self has gained but with what self has denied. A soul lost is not a life lost, for the soul is lost in God. Soul life is selfish and therefore binds us. But the soul renounced shall abide in the boundlessness of God’s life. This is liberty, this is prosperity. The more we lose the more we gain. Our possessions are not measured by how much we receive but by how much we give. How fruitful is this life!
To forsake the soul life, however, is not as easy as deliverance from sin. Since it is our life, the choice is ours to make daily not to live by it but by the life of God. The cross needs to be borne faithfully and to be borne increasingly faithfully. Let us gaze upon our Lord Jesus Who “endured the cross, despising the shame”: “Consider him . . . , that ye wax not weary, fainting in your souls” (Heb. 12.2-3 ASV). The race set before us is none other than that of His despising the shame and enduring His cross.
“Bless the Lord, O my soul; and all that is within me, bless his holy name l” (Ps. 103.1)
| | | Judy Halsey (Guest) | 31/12/2008, 13:02 | | Dear Timothy Reeves
Are you able to reply to my questions to you on 24th December, please?
Judy
|  | Timothy V Reeves (Guest) | 31/12/2008, 13:48 | | Hi Judy and Mr. Smith! I'll get back to you both shortly! (
| | | xxx (Guest) | 31/12/2008, 17:39 | | Dear sister Judy, The secret is enjoying the Lord as the amen in the spirit, the Amen from deep within. as he is the amen.
Amen the words of the Amen.
Most believers think that to say Amen is just an agreement to a prayer. "so be it"
But The Amen we experience, is Christ himself. Wow Amen!!!! When we amen from deep within its like calling on his name because it is his name, Because amen is not just what he does its who he is. And he speaks in and through and out of us as the vessels of the Amen.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.
Revelation 3:14
[ To the Church in Laodicea ] "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.
|  | Timothy V Reeves (Guest) | 02/01/2009, 19:50 | | Mr. Smith:
That was a fine piece of devotional writing and worth reading at that. So I can’t complain (shucks). Ascetics do have a role in the greater scheme of things! Only thing I would say is that what you have said represents an ideal to work toward, and is unlikely to be what is actually the case in many Christian’s lives. See for example Romans 7! You may well agree with that!
So given that I have no complaints about any of that let me ask what happened to all that Gnostic sounding business about separating out one’s spirit? In any case in your last piece of devotional writing your references to the” spirit” appear to be to the Holy Spirit as per Romans 8:5&6 for example.
In the NT the Holy Spirit is revealed as an entity with the traits of personality, but I can see nothing in the NT that gives the human spirit such traits: the human spirit remains very much in the OT mode of activity/energy/power in the abstract. Hence the best model I have of spirit, soul and body is the three aspectual model: that is, soul is the personality, body is the means of expression of personality and spirit is the vital energy/power that keeps the show on the road. Any attempt to separate out these aspects results in an under engineered non-viable entity – just as separating out the temple stone from the temple layout results in a non-temple.
PS liked you answer to the N-1 test.
Ms. Judy
In answer to your questions:
As I have said above I favour the model that spirit, soul and body are three ASPECTS of humanity and not three PARTS. That is, the proper model of humanity is tri-aspectual and not tri-partite. The NT doesn’t develop a doctrine of humanity as three entities or three persons for that matter.
Gnosticism is a dualist philosophy that sees superior and sublime spirit stuff trapped in the inferior and profane world of matter. Salvation entails this spirit stuff freeing itself from ‘evil’ matter. In classical Gnosticism this freeing of the spirit involves entering altered states of consciousness. Now Mr. Smith is certainly not a classical Gnostic but some of his talk about separating out the spirit began to look like it. But that apart I think you will find that James and I are uncomfortable with many of the quasi-gnostic expressions one can find in churches nowadays.
BTW: hope you very had a happy Christmas Judy. I won’t say the same to Mr. Smith because (I didn’t I just know it) he doesn’t celebrate it. I suppose he’s only got bread and water laid on in his cave. I’ll think of him when I’m having my port and cheese by the fire under the glistening Christmas tree (hehe he! that should start Mr. Smith up about animism and wish trees!)
For more on dualism see http://viewsnewsandpews.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-dualism.html
| | | a voice (Guest) | 02/01/2009, 22:34 | | Trilogy of Spirit, Soul, and Body
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground" (Gen. 2.7). This refers to the human body. "And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life." This describes how God gave spirit to man; it was Adam's spirit. So man's body was formed of the dust of the ground, and man's spirit was given to him by God. "And man became a living soul." After the breath of life had entered into his nostrils man became a living soul. The spirit, the soul, and the body are three separate entities. "May your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire" (1 Thess. 5.23. The spirit is God-given; the soul is a living soul; and the body is God-formed.
According to common understanding the soul is our personality. When the spirit and the body were joined, man became a living soul. The characteristic of the angels is spirit and that of the lower animals such as beasts is flesh. We humans have both spirit and body; but our characteristic is neither spirit nor body but soul. We have a living soul. Hence the Bible calls man soul. For example, when Jacob went down into Egypt with his family, the Scriptures tell us that "all the souls of the house of Jacob, that came into Egypt, were threescore and ten" (Gen. 46.27. Again, those who had received Peter's word on Pentecost were baptised and "there were added unto them in that day about three thousand souls" (Acts 2.41. Hence soul stands for our personality, for what makes us as man.
In the history of man's creation we read, `The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground'thus was his body made-`and breathed into his nostrils the breath' or spirit `of life': thus his spirit came from God; `and man became a living soul.' The spirit quickening the body made man a living soul, a living person with the consciousness of himself. The soul was the meeting-place, the point of union between body and spirit. Through the body, man, the living soul, stood related to the external world of sense; could influence it, or be influenced by it. Through the spirit he stood related to the spiritual world and the Spirit of God, whence he had his origin; could be the recipient and the minister of its life and power. Standing thus midway between two worlds, belonging to both, the soul had the power of determining itself, of choosing or refusing the objects by which it was surrounded, and to which it stood related.
| | | James Knight (Guest) | 05/01/2009, 12:07 | | I have to agree, that was a pretty good answer to the N-1 question. I was wondering, XXX, have you read anything by Watchman Nee? He writes about similar subjects to the ones you have covered.
Regarding the N-1 test - psychologists have developed an idea called 'psychological neoteny' (based on the evolutionary concept 'neoteny'), about stretching things from childhood into adulthood. See here http://www.hedonistic.org/bgcharlton/ed-boygenius.html
In actual fact, we do see a more advanced form of the egocentric N-1 problem rather a lot with atheists, but with some Christian commentators too. I remember doing the N-1 test on some of the younger kids at school. Another famous test, one that perhaps has greater inextricability with psychological neoteny is Piaget's famous experiment, which he conducted to demonstrate egocentrism in slightly older children. He made three model mountains from papier mache. Each was a different shape and had something different on the top. A child stood in front of the model and a doll was placed in a different position at the foot of the mountain. The child was shown ten pictures taken from different positions around the model and asked to choose the one that showed what the child thought the doll could see. Children under the age of eight were unable to do this, often choosing the photograph corresponding to what THEY could see. Piaget postulated that children under the age of eight cannot decentre - although I probably have issues with his overall findings; namely how clearly the aims were expressed to the children, whether they fully understood what was expected of them, and, of course, how interesting such an experiment would be to a child of that age.
I must say, a great many of the 'objections to Christianity' contained in the letters I receive each week have various tinctures that seem to me to be related to issues of centring and decentring. Most do not have a clear sense of who they are or where they are going in life. Their rationale in debating with me is often underlain with a rather decentred identity, and not only are many of them unfocused, they are, of course, open to frequent manipulation and change, and easily susceptible to the post-modern thrall. For post-modernists, and many of the 'Horsemen's' * acolytes, "decentring" is an inexorable consequence of the decline of meta-narratives, precisely because the "foundational belief systems" that gave people a strong sense of identity have gradually fallen into disrepute - something which Tim and I dislike (which Tim alludes to in his post). There is, of course, more to it than that, but it's best if I stop there, as I have a horrendously full Inbox to tackle.
* That is, Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris.
Happy New Year to you all.
James
| | | guest (Guest) | 06/01/2009, 14:59 | | http://www.tripartiteman.org/index.html
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